Speaker 1:
Hey, welcome to Lessons from a Quitter where we believe that it is never too late to start over. No matter how much time or energy you've spent getting to where you are. If ultimately you are unfulfilled, then it is time to get out. Join me each week for both inspiration and actionable tips so that we can get you on the road to your dreams. Hello my friends. Welcome to another episode. I'm so excited you are here. I wanted to do this episode for a number of reasons. If you are a longtime listener of the podcast, then you'll remember that um, in the first year that I was doing the podcast, I had the honor of interviewing Dave Hollis. And if you know who Dave Hollis is, he used to be married to Rachel Hollis who is kind of a personal development influencer person who does tons of events and coaching programs and you know, New York Times bestselling author.

Speaker 1:
And at the time when he agreed to be on the podcast, he had recently left Disney. He had been an executive for Disney and had this incredible role making lots of money, doing really amazing things and he left to help his wife grow her company. Now I've thought a little bit about re sharing this or not. They did end up getting a divorce and they have gone through some drama in the public sphere. And this isn't about the Hollis company and or anything that they put out, but if you aren't aware, Dave Hollis passed away last month at the age of 48. And obviously it was very shocking I think to everybody. It was really shocking when I saw the news and it sparked something that I wanted to talk about. I wanted to replay his episode for a number of reasons. One is that he was genuinely one of the kindest people that I've met in this journey of doing podcasting.

Speaker 1:
At the time that he agreed to do my podcast, he had no reason to agree. I was a very small podcast. I didn't have a big audience. I was nobody. He was already a part of a company that had millions and millions of followers. He was on some of the top rated podcasts, he was doing really big interviews. He didn't really need to waste his time. And if you are in the online business world, like you'll know like even me right now with my small audience, I get pitched every single day for people to be guests on my podcast or to ask me to be on their podcast. And you just don't have the time. It's not even about like being nice or whatnot, it's just like you do if you're gonna spend the time working on your business, you don't have the time to do all these interviews.

Speaker 1:
And w I was put in touch with him through a mutual contact, but I fully expected that his secretary or assistant or somebody would just politely tell me that he doesn't have the time and he didn't. He agreed to do it and he was so gracious and so kind and spent time after the interview really encouraging me and talking to me about my business. And it was just really pleasant to see for somebody that didn't have to take that time to do that. And that's what I remembered, you know, as soon as I saw the news was being so sad because he was a genuinely nice guy and you kind of saw that through his social media and his love for his four children and how he kind of showed up for the people and really everyone's tribute to him, the biggest thing was like just how big his heart was, how much he cared about people.

Speaker 1:
And that was really noticeable for someone that doesn't even know him. But the bigger reason I wanted to replay this episode is because obviously nobody expects to pass away suddenly at the age of 48. And we all know the cliches of like life is short and it is. And you guys know that I talk a lot about how life is long and oftentimes we have decades and decades to work and we have the time to change our careers. And it's interesting, when I was thinking about this, I was like, it doesn't matter how you slice it, whether you think life is short or you think life is long, the only really important thing is to go after the life that you want, right? If it's short, then it's worth doing it because why are you wasting the short life that you have or the last couple of years on this earth doing something you hate?

Speaker 1:
And if it's long, then great, we have so much time to live. Why would you spend it miserable? And when you listened to this podcast, one of the really, you know, now sad things to hear is he talks about how his decision to quit Disney was because he was thinking about what his kids would be thinking on his 60th birthday. At the time of the interview he had was probably 44 and he was saying that he was thinking about later on in his life what he had hoped others would think about him. And he really hoped those kids would be proud of him for going after his dreams and doing big things and not taking the safe route. And now seeing that he didn't make it to his 60th birthday, I think about how important just that piece of advice is of thinking back and there is all the fear and there is all the doubt and there is all the uncertainty and all of that is real.

Speaker 1:
But what is also real is that we get this one life and there's so many studies that have now been done on people, on their deathbed, on people that are dying. And the number one regret is always, I wish I had lived a life that was more intentional for me, that was closer to who I am. I wish I lived a life on purpose. And I think so many of us in our day-to-day get so caught in just doing the shoulds what we should do, what everybody else thinks we should do, what our parents told us to do, what society tells us to do. And we don't slow down to think what do I want to do? What do I want for this one precious life I have? And whenever it's unfortunate that it takes death or it takes illness, and these are the times where people really do kind of snap out of it and realize how fragile this life is and how little is promised.

Speaker 1:
And there is, we don't know if there is tomorrow. We don't know how much time we have. And so when you truly bring yourself back to this question of like what does a life on my terms mean? What does living for myself mean and how do I get closer to doing that? I may not be perfect at it. I'm not gonna get over my fear tomorrow. But how do I make these tough decisions that are scary to create a life that is more intentional or more of who I am than what everybody else wants from me? And again, I think seeing Dave and really for me reflecting back on this episode, I am grateful and thankful for him that he did take the step that he had these experiences and they had a lot of hardship and him and his wife went through a divorce and he was battling some other things.

Speaker 1:
So it's obviously not all rainbows and butterflies, but to think that he made the decision to go after the big scary amazing thing and how many people he inspired in doing that, how many people he helped in doing that. He wrote books, he had podcasts, he did all these things that he wanted to do. And I'm so thankful that he did it cuz I think I've learned a lot from him. The other reason I wanted to share this is, this is a little morbid, but I always think about this when I think about mortality and death. The reality is like after he passed, he was in like a tight-knit circle with a bunch of other personal development people who had very big followings and all of them seem to genuinely have a really great relationship with him. They all posted about his passing and then seemingly went on with life and were just posting about their businesses from then on.

Speaker 1:
And this isn't a judgment in any way. I, you know, think they have businesses to run and platforms to run and obviously like they likely behind closed doors are dealing with it in different ways. But it was fascinating to watch and to really think about like how quickly we all move on with our lives. If you think about, just as an example, the Queen of England died when, I dunno five months ago, a couple months ago, I can't even remember at this point. Most of us have never thought about her again, right? Until I just mentioned her. And she was like a leader of a major country for 70 years. I understand that she wasn't an actual leader. But I think about this a lot. Like when I think about, you know, even if you look at like presidents, like we only know the name of a couple of presidents historically, right?

Speaker 1:
Most of us don't know like the name of the 27th president or the 34th or whatever and that person became the president of the United States, right? Like my point is almost like it doesn't even matter how big of a life you have and the legacy you leave, most people forget within two generations, right? I think about like my grandmother, whom my kids didn't know, they don't know anything about her or her life. I've talked about her a little bit, but that's it. It's done like after my parents' generation and my generation, my grandmother and grandfather, their memories will live on like within me and that's it. And I say all this , the reason I'm bringing up all of this morbid is because so many of us are so stuck not doing what we wanna do. Cause we're so terrified of what other people think of us.

Speaker 1:
We live our lives so small because we're so scared that God forbids somebody has a negative thought about us. And when you really look at the fragility of life and how quick and fleeting it is, and you look at how many people didn't live a life they wanted because they were so scared that someone was gonna say something and they all just perish. All those people you're afraid of, nobody even thinks about it. People move on. Dave in this episode talked about how he was super scared about what his colleagues at Disney were thinking about and would think about him leaving. And you know, you can hear it as in the replay, but he talks about how in the 10 months that he's gone, he hadn't had one conversation with them. He's like, they weren't thinking about me. And I was recently just coaching someone in in the club about how she feels guilty about quitting the job because like people had helped her along the way or something and like she felt like she owed it to them, right?

Speaker 1:
And it's like, it's amazing that like when you quit within like a month, nobody will think about you anymore. And yet so many of us stay for years and years and decades and decades because of these ridiculous thoughts that just keep us in place, right? Alex Hermo, who's also like an influencer on social media and teaches like business, he had a post recently about this saying like, at your funeral, like when you die at your funeral, most people, not all, like obviously your family's gonna be distraught, but most people are going to be like they thinking about their own problems, thinking about what's for lunch as they drive away, they're going to be thinking about what they're gonna go eat or what they have to do later that day or what the next week looks like for them, right? And again, I know that this can kind of be disheartening for me, it was really liberating is to think like I was so concerned ab about not just who my family and friends and close friends thought I was worried about what everybody thought of me.

Speaker 1:
And I was so terrified of like random people I went to law school with that I don't even talk to. Like what if they see something on Instagram? And I started realizing how much I censored myself and I limited myself and I didn't go out and help the people I wanted to help and I didn't wanna put out the podcast. And then you really just look at like how finite life is and how absorbed everybody is with their own lives. And I feel like with Dave's, the reason I really wanted to like replay this is because I know we all just move on, right? And this man who seemingly helped a lot of people after a while, we'll, I hate to say it, not like the beak forgotten, but we all just kind of think about other things and we follow other people and we see other people on our feet and we get distracted and we move on.

Speaker 1:
And so I always, for me, take this as a reminder that all of these things are so fleeting and that nobody is thinking about me as much as I think they are. And that I only get this one short life and I get to choose what I wanna do with it. And if I'm letting that choice be hindered because I'm so scared of what everyone else is gonna think, then I am the one responsible for clipping my own wings. And I am the one responsible for keeping myself caged and in a box that the door is wide open to, that I'm allowed to step through if I wasn't so afraid. So with that, I wanted to replay his episode, episode 45 as a tribute to him so that we can honor him and his struggle and what he went through, and that we can use it as a reminder to go after the life that we so desperately want.

Speaker 1:
And we will jump into the episode with Mr. Dave Hollis. Hey guys, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining me. If you're new here, thank you for joining us for the first time. I am so excited to have you guys here and I am so excited about this episode. We have Mr. Dave Hollis on the show, and I'm so honored to be able to talk to him about his incredible journey. But before we get into that, I mentioned last week that I finally got my act together and put together a resource that you guys have been asking me about. The number one question I get repeatedly weekly through dms and emails is, how do I figure out what I should do? Like, I wanna quit my job, I wanna do something else, but I feel like I have no other skills or I feel like I don't even know what I'm passionate about.

Speaker 1:
And I went through the same thing. I felt very stuck when I wanted to quit law. I hadn't given myself this time or space to really figure out who I was and what I enjoyed outside of the thing I had worked for for 30 years. So, well, maybe not 30 years, probably not when I was a child, but you get it. So I made a PDF for you guys that goes through the five steps that I went through in order to really unpack the things I liked and what I wanted to follow. Now, let me give you a disclaimer that this isn't something that like you're gonna read in 10 minutes and do one exercise and you're gonna figure out what your life's calling is. It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. I wish I could give you that, but I can't. So it has a series of different exercises and things that you can do, but they take time and you gotta give yourself the space to really be able to figure out what it is that lights you up.

Speaker 1:
So if you're willing to put in that work, then go to quitter club.com/pdf. It's free, download it, let me know what you think, let me know if you do it and what you come up with. I would love to hear what you guys are doing. With that, let's jump over to the episode today. It is such a good one. We have Dave Hollis. Dave is currently the c e o of the Hollis Company. I'm sure most of you have heard of him and his wife, Rachel Hollis, but in case you haven't, Rachel is a powerhouse motivational speaker, personal development guru. She has been called the female Tony Robbins. She has two current New York Times best-selling books. Girl Wash Your Face and Girl Stop Apologizing. And through the Hollis Company, they are working to help people live their best lives, whether that be through their two top rated podcasts, live conferences, coaching books, merchandise, you name it.

Speaker 1:
But if you haven't followed them for a long time, then you may not know that Dave only recently joined the Hollis company. In fact, it's only been about a year before that Dave had an incredible 17 year career at the Walt Disney Company, which culminated in his role as president of theatrical distribution. That basically means that Dave was in charge of global theatrical sales for Disney, Pixar, Marvel, and Lucas Film. During his tenure, Disney had industry breaking records such as the first 7 billion year in global ticket sales and the only studio to cross 6,000,000,002 years in a row. His job was by all accounts, the quote unquote dream. It was high paying, high glamor. He'll talk about, you know, the Oscars and red carpet events and highly respected. And yet we'll talk to Dave about why it ultimately became unfulfilling and how he made the decision to walk away from something that seemingly had been his dream job for so long. His journey is full of inspiration and wisdom about how we all should be thinking about and approaching our own lives and jobs. So without further ado, let's jump in and talk to Dave. Hi Dave. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2:
Oh, it's so great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:
Oh, I am so excited to have you and I cannot wait to jump into all the amazing things that you guys are doing at the Hollis Company. But before we get to that exciting part, what we like to start with is kind of the background and in your, you know, previous career. So can you give us a little bit of backdrop into what your career was like at Disney before you left?

Speaker 2:
So I, as you mentioned, work at the Hollis Company. Now we have only been doing this for about 10 months, and prior to that I spent about 25 years in media. I started at 20th Century Fox. I worked at an agency for a stretch, was in grassroots marketing, and then found myself at the beginning of what was, uh, inevitably a 17 year experience at the Walt Disney Company. Uh, a fantastic experience at the Wal Disney Company. I spent the entirety of my time in the studio, the film studio business. The first 10 years I worked in packaged media first D V D and then DVD and Blu-ray. And then, uh, after a bit of strategy work and marketing work, uh, found myself in distribution, uh, where for the last seven years of my time at the company, I was the head of sales for our film studio. And it was spectacular in a whole host of ways until it wasn't. And that was when it was time to jump.

Speaker 1:
Well, that's sort of what we wanna get into. And I think that, you know, you were in a very high level position by the time you had left, you had became president of Worldwide Distribution and what you were just saying, I know you had some record breaking, uh, years while you were there. And so, you know, from the outside seems like such a glamorous career and you get to go to red carpet events and Oscars and all this stuff. So at what point does it start not becoming, you know, something that you love? Like what was there that was not fulfilling anymore?

Speaker 2:
Sure. I mean the, the headline is the, the job itself is spectacular. It, it will be, when I get to the end of my career, one of the things I look back with so many unbelievably great memories, in part because I got to work with the greatest storytellers on earth. I got to work with the greatest teams on earth. I had the best leaders, I had the biggest brands. But the things that made the job great were also the thing that ended up making the job a thing that I had to quit. And that was because of the strength of Disney, Marvel, Pixar Lucas and Disney animation because of what the, the leverage ultimately was as a salesperson negotiating with a movie theater who couldn't live without, nearly without, you know, a single Star Wars movie or a single Avengers movie. The thing that made it so interesting and challenging at the beginning of my journey, because I had not had a ton of experience in sales necessarily, and I had no experience inside of the theatrical business.

Speaker 2:
Those first few years working as the head of distribution were exhilarating because I was in a position where I could fail on the regular and was learning via drinking outta a fire hydrant on just about every single day basis. And when I, you know, inevitably got to that point where, I mean, when I first came into that last job I had, the company had just acquired Pixar and in very short time added Marvel and then added Lucas. And though those acquisitions were exciting and getting to know those teams and how you blend cultures between what previously were separate companies into now a single part of a bigger company, you know, know with each of those things happening, the learning curve of that beginning phase was diminishing as the negotiating leverage was increasing. And so I found myself after probably the first three years of that seven year span, struggling to feel as excited about the accolades that came in having the biggest year in the history of the theatrical business.

Speaker 2:
By the time I left we had nine of the 10 biggest opening weekends in film history. And those things at the beginning felt unbelievably great because of how much work it was taking and how satisfying it was to figure out how to do things that you didn't know how to do. And towards the end, uh, it doesn't mean that it wasn't still, you know, like Black Panthers opening weekend is a memory I'll have for the rest of my life. The force awakens opening weekend, forget about it, right? But on the every day I wasn't having to study as hard or at all to get straight A grades. Right? And so as much as there were things that I thought I wanted, but I thought for my adult life I was chasing certain titles, the kind of, you know, respect or, uh, you know, maybe even at Times Envy from people who had similar jobs but not as much powder to work with, right? Um, I thought those were things I wanted. And then when I had them, there was a sense of unfulfillment because of not having to work as hard or being in a position necessarily to fail as much.

Speaker 1:
I think that is such a common theme that happens with so many people that are climbing a ladder to get to a certain point and then they get there and it's great, but either it's not what they thought it was gonna be and it's unfulfilling or you know, as humans we need growth and you're not growing anymore. And so it becomes unfulfilling. But what tends to happen is we add a layer of guilt of like, I should love this. This is what I wanted. I should, you know, ev from the outside looking in, everybody thinks this is great. And that keeps so many people stuck because it's like, I've reached this pinnacle now and I should be happy. Why am I not? So like how did you get over that mindset of being like, okay, I have this incredible career, but it's okay to start something over or to big take a big leap or to do something that other people don't understand.

Speaker 2:
So I, I had the fortune, the serendipity, the providence of three big things happening in my life at the exact same time. I had the circumstances of a job that had the optics of one of the best in the entire business, if not any business meeting my not having to try as hard to succeed and my wife's business that she'd spent 15 years as an entrepreneur building, reaching a tipping point where there was absolutely an opportunity waiting for someone who had wiring like I did on the, uh, operational and sales and marketing side of things to step in and help take what she'd built to the next level. And I was moving from my thirties to my forties and in the, the latter of the three, this bridge between my thirties and forties was really interesting because it was one of those milestone birthdays where I was asking bigger existential whys.

Speaker 2:
Why, why am I on this earth? Why do I have this potential inside of me that I'm now not in a position to have to use? Why? And I had at the time three and then ultimately four young kids and I started thinking about my 60th birthday dinner, which sounds like a very random thing, but I'm turning 40 thinking about the next 20 years of my life and has as my young kids become adults, what around this table they might raise a glass, a toast of what it is about what I've accomplished that they are proud of. And I could see two paths, one path of me continuing to clinging to certainty, which was for the entirety of my adult life, the number one commodity of my life. Or I could let go of the worry of what people might think of me doing something else, pursue intentionally something where failing was more likely than the current situation that I was in for the opportunity in the failure or the learning or the, you know, friction that comes in an uncomfortable space to grow in the same way that you break down a muscle to build it up.

Speaker 2:
And I could see what they might say about my having chosen the safer path, the thing that the outside world said was good. And that would have provided well for our family and that would have allowed me to go to the, the Oscars or whatever might be, uh, as the member of the greatest media company in the world. Or I could go pursue something that had as its purpose something that might have a different kind of impact. Partnering with my best friend and wife and showing my children that in pursuing something that wasn't as certain or at times totally uncertain that the growth that came from having deliberately chosen uncertainty was the reason why their arms were higher in the air as they were toasting me at 60. So the choice became clear against, right? Like visualizing that future and creating leverage against the status quo in a way that made the deviating from it the only choice.

Speaker 1:
Right? I love that. And I think there's so many things to unpack there and I really wanna get into what your wife has created and how that played into this. But one part of that, and if anybody is living under a rock and doesn't know who Rachel Hollis is, I mean she has created this unbelievable brand and she puts out inspiring content all the time. Like you were saying, she's been doing it for 15 years. It started out more as like a lifestyle blog and has now become really this personal development powerhouse with bestselling books and live events. And you guys are doing, we'll get into all of those amazing things, but you guys are very open about the fact that she had a very tough conversation with you when she was starting her personal development journey and about the fact that if you also weren't gonna be on a personal development journey, then that would cause problems in your relationship down the line potentially.

Speaker 1:
And I'm just wondering when was that and how much was like you actually getting involved in personal development that led to having these existential questions? And really, cuz I think a lot of people that are in those positions don't ask these questions because we aren't taught to really like sit and reflect on what we want and, and on these bigger issues and you get what is quote unquote successful and stay there. So I'm wondering, you know, when you are having these thoughts about your 60th birthday party, how much time had you kind of already been working on this, you know, making yourself better and being in this personal development state by that point?

Speaker 2:
Well, the good news is I got way worse before I got way better . Uh, so as I'm, as I'm, you know, enjoying the spoils of being the president of distribution and the salary or the recognition that went might come with it, I descended into what was probably the lowest point of my adult life, which just does not actually make sense. But that disconnect between what everyone else thought and the way that I felt really ended up feeling a bit isolating. And so I did what I do sometimes, uh, hopefully never again, but in the past reach for things that would help mute some of those feelings instead of for personal development tools that could help me become a better version of myself mm-hmm. . And so I would have a little too much to drink at times. I'd put on headphones and take runs that lasted too long.

Speaker 2:
I'd play video, I'd like, I'd do things to detach from having to feel the things that I was feeling as I was unsatisfied mm-hmm. in a way that was compromising me, showing up as the husband my wife deserves, or the father my kids deserve. And when I was in the midst of this, like I never really thought that a midlife crisis was a thing until I was in the middle of one. And I, you know, I started going to therapy. I love therapy. I really hope that, uh, anyone who's listening who has taboo around therapy will throw that in the garbage can and just go sit on the couch of an objective stranger and say all the things. My personal development journey started out of this place of, uh, feeling stuck in a rut. And my reaching for therapy was a first step to an attempt to understand the why of, of me being there.

Speaker 2:
And so as I was in the midst of that work, Rachel went to a personal growth conference. Growth is as a commodity, the thing that she values most in life. And so she just went on a full, I am going to be a better version of myself tomorrow than today's strength. And in the midst of me being in that funk, I was unable to join her mm-hmm. . And we went on a vacation and it was, uh, not a good vacation because I was, uh, the worst version truly of me. Like just choosing not to show up for my family in a way that when we returned from the vacation, prompted the hardest and most important and best reflection of what love should look like in a relationship conversation. When my wife plowed into Wade weighed into a really tough talk and it was, Hey, I am going to continue to reach for growth every single day.

Speaker 2:
I am going to become a better version of myself every single day. And as much as, yes, I appreciate that you're on this journey to find why you feel the way that you do this conversation, as it was still early in that therapy conversation has you not reaching for growth yet. You're not reaching for the tools, you're not, you're not doing anything. You're actually, instead of just maintaining a status quo, descending, uh, into a, a worse version of yourself, and I love you enough to ask you if you can imagine if in three months the trajectory that I'm talking about, I keep growing, you keep sinking, makes the date night we have end in a in a way that we'd want. Are we connecting at dinner? Are we making out afterwards in six months? Are we still going on date nights and in two years are we still married?

Speaker 2:
And it was like, you want to create leverage, that was the gut punch of a lifetime because I just legitimately never contemplated the possibility of not being married. And as much as like I thought that irreconcilable differences was just a thing people made up that, you know, didn't wanna work hard on the relationship, we were in the beginning stages of ear reconcili ability, if that is a word, . And it took that conversation for me to say, you know, what tools exist? I have been skeptical about people who need or use them, but I am just desperate. Maybe sounds extreme, but desperate enough that I will reach for them. The first chapter of a book that I'm writing is, uh, uh, about a debunking of lies that men believe. And my first lie was that self-help is for broken people. Like I grew up with a bunch of taboo around people who needed therapy or people who needed conferences or people who read books about your ability to reach for a better version of yourself. But at that point, with that conversation, I agreed to go to a personal development conference. I had a transformational experience there, and I then began to reach for every tool that I could. And it tipped that, you know, that funk into needing to create some action, including leaving my job and jumping into this work with my wife.

Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for sharing all that. I mean, I think it is so important because that comes up again and again. I see it with so many people that I've talked to on the podcast are people I talk to that are in these positions where they feel stuck. And so many of us go into like self sabotage and we don't understand why we're doing the things that we're doing. And because by by society standards, we should be happy and we should just stay. And we're so programmed to fear like change that we do end up just like staying and being more miserable. And I think a lot of people relate to that part. And I also think a lot of people really do have those taboos around personal development and self-help and look down on it. And a lot of these buttoned up professions like executives and lawyers and doctors and all these people that have been taught to like, oh, that's like woowoo, you know, made up stuff. And it's incredible how we, you know, on this podcast it comes up again and again that everyone's battle, everyone's journey is like 90% just mental. And if you can figure out how to shift your mindset, it's life changing. So thank you first for putting that out there

Speaker 2:
For sure. And you, you know what's interesting, I mean, the reality too is like I was having like the, the application of self-help or you know, any, anything inside of this space modeled by my wife who had her journey start, it's chronicled in her books and on her podcast with her wanting to try and solve the the why question around her own anxiety. Mm. And so when she found some answers to the why of her anxiety in a way that could take it and have it gone from her life, she went on a pursuit for what else these tools might be able to either accelerate on the positive side or, or take away on the negative side. And so that was a part of why I started. But you know, along the way I'm very much a, a like, figure out the why and then find the tool that can a address or, you know, take care of whatever's been diagnosed.

Speaker 2:
I I'm still in pursuit of answers and not because of there being anything broken necessarily, but because of there being an appreciation that we're on a never ending pursuit of Right. Growth if you wanna, if at least if you wanna be fulfilled. Yeah. There's this crazy, crazy correlation between growing and fulfillment and the like day that you find yourself steadying out or feeling like you're, you know, getting to a static place. You've gotta push through and find a way to grow. And, and it's gonna be a trigger usually when you're doing it, it because you're pushing into something that's new or uncomfortable or different. And that's the point.

Speaker 1:
Yes, absolutely. And I think actually when you start doing this work and you start realizing that the questions and the growth will never end, it becomes comforting. Whereas before we're just taught to find answers. And like when you don't have that answer, when you don't know why something is wrong, like you're taught to kind of be scared or, you know, we go into all of these unhealthy responses, but once you start realizing like, it will always be a question and you will always evolve and there'll be the next question and you know, and it that's okay. I think it becomes kind of comforting, like, oh, let me just sit with this for a little bit.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Our friend, uh, Brendan Burchard, he, he's an author and does unbelievable work in this space, but he has a saying, honor the struggle. And it's not an easy thing to, it's easy to say it's, it's harder to do, but the more that you can convince yourself, train your brain, have the mindset that the struggle is the way Yeah. To the better version of yourself. The tools that you may have or the tricks or the coping mechanisms that you may have previously used to try and diffuse the struggle or mute the struggle seem counterproductive. If you realize that in muting the struggle, you're actually taking all of the fruit and squeezing the juice out of it. Like the whole point is the struggle. And if you can see it as that, you can actually sit it in it in a way that like brings a great return to you for whoever it is that you're meant to be.

Speaker 1:
Yes, absolutely. And so what people struggle with is now going back to where you were, when you start telling, you know, your coworkers or your family or your friends that you're gonna leave this position, I have to assume that there are people, whether out of their goodness of their heart because they want you to be safe or you know, whatever, what their own fears are. Start with the like, wait, what You're leaving? You're, uh, are you crazy? Did anyone react that way to you?

Speaker 2:
Of course, of course. Uh, partially because like there's, there's a category of people who have that reaction and their reaction is a reflection of their love for you, of their wanting to keep you safe or protect you. And that is a very small percentage of the people who have a reaction that is a reflection of that. Uh, most of the reaction is actually, and I can see it so much clearer now than I could in the middle of having the conversations are a reflection of how your departure affects them. Right. So like if you were an unbelievable contributor on a team and you tell your boss that you are going to leave them and they have a reaction, the reaction is not about you. The reaction is about the pain that it creates for them to replace you. The possibility that your departure impacts their ability to bonus.

Speaker 2:
Like it's very much a reflection of their own concern for themselves and self-preservation than it is necessarily a reflection of you. You know, like I've stayed in contact with the whole bunch of people that were great friends through the years, but of all of the people I was worried about when it came to breaking this news, the overwhelming majority, more than 90% of them I have not even had a conversation with in the 10 months since I left. And I am 100% certain that they have not given much thought to like, to me. Right. Right. Because, and this is a condition of humanity. This is not an indictment on anyone being good or bad. This is just human. We are all, every one of us, every person who's listening primarily concerned with ourselves. And so if you're worried about what people are thinking about, here's a free break for the day, they're not thinking about you

Speaker 1:
.

Speaker 2:
Right? Right. Like, like I was worried about what people were gonna think about me and the revelation in the aftermath of my departure was they weren't thinking about me. Right. They were thinking about themselves and that doesn't make them bad, it makes them human.

Speaker 1:
Right. Now, do you think if Rachel didn't have this company that you guys were going, you know, that you were saying there was this tipping point and there was this opportunity, do you think you would have still left like to do something else? Or was it because there was this opportunity that kind of gave you clarity in what you were gonna be doing that it made it, you know Okay to leave?

Speaker 2:
No, I, I definitely left for the opportunity mm-hmm. . And if it hadn't existed, I, I, I'm, I feel, you know, like either one of two things would've happened. I would have finally got the courage up to find something more challenging for myself, or I would have been offered something else inside the company at a certain point. Hmm. And my hope would be that I would have been sober enough, like like ha, happy enough, like still married enough to have been the human that deserved the opportunity to go do something in the parks or do something in consumer products. Right. That would've been a new challenge. And so I think I, you know, inevitably would've ended up in a different job. But I definitely, the, the opportunity to do this great work that we're doing together was the catalyst for making a move. And I mean trust, I'm thankful every day that it happened when it happened because if I was, you know, 18 months later still sitting in the, you know, conference room, talking about selling a movie that isn't that hard to sell, I like, I don't like the, the vision of how that guy shows up for his sons.

Speaker 2:
Right. And his daughter. Right,

Speaker 1:
Right. And you talked about, I mean, obviously Rachel has been, been working on this stuff for 15 years and she had already been a bestselling author and you know, when she released Girl Wash Your Face, I think you quit after that was already released. So what's happened in the last 10 months though? I mean, it's, it seems from the outside it's funny cuz a lot of people just learn about her now and think she's like, an overnight success was, is laughable, but it seems like it's like skyrocketed. And so is this something that like you guys, you know, you were on the horizon, you saw this coming or has it like taken you aback a little bit?

Speaker 2:
So the crazy thing is we made the decision to move. We bought the house that we live in currently six months before Girl Wash Your Face was released and we did it on an impulsive trip to Austin. Where in seeing this place that we now live in, I said, I think we have to buy this house today so that we give me the leverage to walk in and quit. Oh wow. And uh, which is like ridiculous, but also like the kind of impulsiveness that we have. And I was, I was at a place where I just knew, hey, we've gotta go chase this girl, wash Your Face. Sold almost 3 million copies in the last year. There is not a human being on earth who thinks, hey, this book's gonna sell 3 million copies before it comes out. So as much as there was hope that the book was gonna do well and, and it doing well was gonna be an anchor for a whole bunch of other things that we might create, there was no projecting that it could do as well as it did.

Speaker 2:
She worked as, as you said, like, you know, she worked for 15 years that building a community first as a event planner, then a lifestyle blog, then into the online media space, did some white label content. Like she was building this community for a long, long time and the book and Its Success is a reflection of how connected she was to the community and what they wanted to hear her write about most and not her first book. This happened to be her sixth book. So she had five books that nobody heard about or a few people heard about. Right. And then she had, you know, the opportunity to write the book of her heart that was a reflection of the needs of the community that she'd worked inside of for 15 years. Now the, the great thing is the book was succeeding at the same time that her podcast was just starting to take off.

Speaker 2:
And new readers of the book were now being exposed to the new podcast, are now doing this adventure together, gave way to us creating a podcast for couples together. And that also attracted some of the audience that was now getting a chance to read the book. Her personal development conference Rise was something that had happened before and then happened again and we taped it and we put it into movie theaters to show people. And because there was more, you know, people talking about the book and now talking about the podcast, there was more appetite to see the movement made in, in theaters. And it led to, it's like all of these things were kind of just stacking on top of each other. And so the individual pieces became greater than the sum of parts, you know, kind of conversation. And, uh, it's led now to more books and Girls Stop Apologizing comes out and it hits number one the week that it comes out and more product and more, you know, uh, live events.

Speaker 2:
And now it's, you know, like let's, let's continue to stay focused on the mission. And the mission has always been putting tools in the hands of people that if they use them, they might be able to change their lives. It's been historically very much women because it was Rachel, you know, at the beginning providing a casserole recipe to women because at that point in her life she had very young kids and a casserole recipe was literally something that could change her life because you could put broccoli inside of it and our kids wouldn't know about it. now at this stage of who she's evolved into becoming personal development and, and growth is a big part of who she is and how she's become what she has and sharing the tools on either how she's scaling, uh, this business or how she's scaled her life, uh, are a part of what she's now teaching regularly.

Speaker 2:
And the audience is receptive. I mean part of it too is there was something unconventional about the honesty mm-hmm. and the transparency and what she put out in Girl Wash Your Face. But that was also a big part of what she had been putting out Yeah. In the online business that she built for the 15 years. And so when we started doing more things that were really honest and in in and in their honesty against the backdrop of super curated Facebook and Instagram feeds, there was a disruptiveness in the honesty that connected us to the real life everyday problems of basically everybody. And that connection is part of what people in a super disconnected and you know, super divided world are looking for

Speaker 1:
'em. Yeah, absolutely. But kind of being, you know, outside of that corporate world for less than a year and now you're very, like you were saying, you guys have a couples podcast and you're very much, you know, out in front as well and on Instagram and on stages. Do you ever have a hard time with like how personal the topics, I mean you guys talk very openly about your sex life and your adoption journey and everything that's going on in your, your family and you know, for a lot of people worrying about like what people in their church are gonna say or what people in their family are gonna say, like, is that an issue for you or have you just gotten used to like, this is the way it is?

Speaker 2:
At first it was a huge issue. I had a, I had a really hard time, I spent most of my career on the Disney side managing stakeholders expectations of uh, you know, upper management or as the every Sunday liaison with the press to make sure that the way that the movies were being positioned were being positioned perfectly. And as a person who was always trying to control optics coming into a place that was like, we're just gonna take the lens off and let you see exactly how things are and be really honest about things that people don't usually talk about. It was hard more from a muscle memory standpoint than almost anything else because the success of Girl Washer face being, it came out in February, we moved in June, like we had those few months of time where my mind was being changed by the response to the book.

Speaker 2:
That it was as honest and transparent and vulnerable as it was and that people were responding to someone finally being comfortable enough to own embarrassing things and uncomfortable things. That gave me a, a sense of, okay, this can be okay. I've probably started with a little bit of kind of being halfway in and when I started getting the notes from people who were being affected by the work, the impact allowed for the whole way to be a thing we had to go do, or I at least I had to go to Rachel, Rachel was already all the way completely in . But I started to get notes about the impact that us having a really frank conversation about our sex life or adoption journey or the way we fight being a thing that was making a difference for a couple who were strangers on the internet made the worry of what someone else might think completely irrelevant.

Speaker 2:
Right. Because the, you know, opportunity to potentially help a marriage become stronger or help someone who's got some taboo about personal development get past that cuz it's ridiculous and doesn't matter at all. You know, the impact was the North star and made the worry of what other people think. If someone doesn't like the stuff that we do, that's okay. Yeah. It's, it just means that it, that we're not for them. There's a great quote, I don't remember who says it, but like you could be the sweetest peach on the entire tree, juiciest best and if someone doesn't like peaches right, it doesn't mean they're a bad peach, it just means they don't like peaches. Yeah. Like there are some people that we are just not the brand for them and I hope they find the tools that'll help them have an amazing life. It's just not us.

Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I had this same experience with this podcast. I feel like we focus so much on the negative, like in our fear we think like all about the bad things people are gonna say. And when you start kind of tasting, the good thing is like when people reach out, it's so overwhelmingly so much better that like any bad thing doesn't even compare, but you don't normally think that before you take the jump. And I think what you just said is also just a really key point and such a key learning is that it's okay to kind of be half in and half out and test it and then see, you know, I think people think if they aren't already at the finish line and they can't start, like they, they don't already know how to do everything or put themselves out there and, and it's like just, you know, start the Instagram page or start the blog or do what you're gonna do and see how it feels and like that confidence kind of builds as you're doing it. It doesn't just come

Speaker 2:
I Yeah, totally agree. And the only other thing that I would add is be yourself. Like be, yeah. Be the, the parts of you that bring out the opportunity for someone else to see themself in you and, and don't like, don't try and be what you think they want. Be yourself. Right. Cause I think in this day and age with, with as much access and the technology being what it is, like people are responding to things that feel authentic and real and if you aren't capable or you're trying to kind of sell them a version of what you think they want, people are too savvy. I think they can kind of sniff that

Speaker 1:
Out. Right, right. Absolutely. And like you just said, I mean there might be a lot of people that are talking about the same things, but there's people that resonate with different styles and you were saying some people may not resonate with your style and they might do personal development with someone that has a completely different style. And so there is room for people to be themselves because there are tribes for you that resonate with your message

Speaker 2:
100%.

Speaker 1:
Just getting to kind of the RAST acts though of like the business, what has it been like to work as a husband and wife team? Has that been, you know, for the most part really easy or has it been a lot of challenges kind of figuring out that business aspect?

Speaker 2:
Figuring out the business has been easier because we both have complimentary skills. She is the dreamer, I am the executor, practical, pragmatic person now trying to stop killing dreams before she's able to finish sentences. But, and working together on the whole has been the very, very best thing and the hardest thing we've ever done in our marriage. Right. And so, you know, we're we are legit best friends, we have so much passion for the work that we're doing and the kind of impact we believe is possible, not just today but truly the thing that we're building and the kind of impact we can have over time. It sounds obnoxious, but we're gonna change the world. Yeah. And, and doing that together, being able to do that with your best friend is amazing. At the same time we're both strong personalities. We both are high performers.

Speaker 2:
We both have had a ton of great experience and so ego, it plays a really fun role in having husband and wife come together as business partners. You know, she's got enormous pride as she should have in having been a female founder and female c e o and I having, you know, had the kind of experiences I had over the course of time, if I was gonna leave the Walt Disney company, I would wanna leave to be in a position to take on a c e o role. And her coming to the decision that scaling the business and us working together was more important than the ego piece that was involved in retaining her title is like, I, I've mad respect for her ability to come and, and say that. And the crazy thing is those titles in a weird way, mattered so much when we were making the leap and today mean very, very little because they were about what people would think and we, we don't care what people think, uh, almost at all at this point cuz we're too busy working on this mission to change the world.

Speaker 2:
But the biggest, if you are a couple who works together, my best piece of advice is be excruciatingly clear on a division of labor. I know the things that I work on, the people that have reporting lines into me, the like place where my, you know, role starts and stops and know where hers does the same, is their overlap of course. Are there times when something in my lane is something I want her opinion on because I'd still like to make out with her at the end of the day. yes. But for the most part there are, there, there are just two different lands inside of this business. One that's more in that HR, finance, sales, marketing kind of thing. And then one that's very much more in the creative space and she wakes up every day excited about how to create things that will change lives. And I wake up every day excited about how we can make sure that the most number of people possible are able to receive those tools. That's a good pairing.

Speaker 1:
Well that's great advice. And again, I know cuz it's like sometimes we can idealize or make things seem like very dreamy, like, oh, how cool to work as a husband and wife team. But clearly that can cause a lot of issues. So I think that it's good to know before going into that, that you know, if you're gonna be together all the time, there needs to be a lot of communication both at home and at work. And it is easier said than done. So,

Speaker 2:
Yeah. And I will say one other thing, and this is like a, a pretty new thing because we have scaled a team. When we got to Austin, we had five employees. We now have 25. We, I think we have 26 employees. So this is very exciting. We've scaled pretty quick. Our team can never see us as husband and wife arguing the points of why to do something for the business or not. They need to see us as the c e o and founder C because if they see us as mommy and daddy are fighting, right? That's not right. Right. There's a motion wrapped in us being a married couple, arguing in a constructive way about what's best for the business. But in any good company, the chief creative and the chief executive would of course have arguments about what's best for the direction of the business. And so, um, we have to create a culture that really is comfortable with ideas like radical candor and being, you know, politely direct and everything else so that you can actually move as quickly as we want to in a way that doesn't have people worry that we're gonna get divorced for arguing about the color notebook.

Speaker 1:
. That is a great point. And what you guys are doing is incredible. I mean, how quickly it is growing and all of the things that you're doing, what would be like your advice to somebody that is in a career that they are quote unquote successful, but they are miserable and they feel stuck and they don't really know where to go from there? Like, do you have anything, any, like, obviously people should read Girl Wash Your Face and Girls Stop Apologizing, but any books that helped you, anything that you just think might help someone that feels stuck?

Speaker 2:
Yes. Well, the first book that I would recommend that had a really big impact on me was Mindset by Carol Dweck. It's just this idea between fixed and growth mindset. And I very much identify as a person who had been a fixed mindset person for a long time. So feeling stuck in a lot of ways was related to my mindset and thinking that I couldn't do something that departed from what I either had created as an identity or that society had developed as a construct that I had to live inside of. So read that book, if you are stuck and there isn't an like an opportunity, like if your partner isn't writing a New York Times bestselling book that's gonna sell 3 million copies. Then the thing that I had the opportunity to do just before we made this decision was really lean into mentoring. I, I brought on a, an apprentice at one point to teach them how to do some of the things that I was doing inside of my role.

Speaker 2:
Like, find some people that you can show up for and pour into and see what parts of that experience sparked the passion inside of you. That's one. Two, think back to the things when you were, you know, when you were young, before you had responsibility that just got you excited when you got up in the morning. Mm. Make a list of those things that you would consider to be your personal passions. Put that list aside. You'll have yourself a drink, sparkling water, have some wine, whatever you want. Come back and make a list of the things that you think are absolutely a hundred percent the most marketable things that you bring competency wise to the table. And lay those lists on top of each other and start asking questions about what vocation, what job, what thing exists in this world that taps both into your personal passions and the things that you're great at.

Speaker 2:
And it doesn't mean that like, oh good, now I can go be a sportscaster cuz that's what mine would be. I want to go be a sportscaster, but dang it. I like, I know there are a whole bunch of places that can use my ability to speak and my love of, you know, like entertaining. And so if you can find the nexus of those two things and, and start your search for next from that, the chance that, that you're gonna find something that actually tugs on your personal passion and the things that you're great at is unbelievably higher. And then the last thing, and this is more kind of like on the other side of that bridge from your thirties to forties, for me reaching for something that was purpose oriented and, and impact oriented mm-hmm. has made a massive difference in my why. So like my big huge, why am I here, my big huge how and, and where can I use this potential that I've been given in my life. Mm-hmm. , every single time I come back to purpose and impact, that is where I end up getting the most fulfillment. And it's probably where most people do because it feels like you mattered, right? It feels like what you're doing is important, that it's gonna potentially have an effect on someone that can change their life. And that's why we're here .

Speaker 1:
Absolutely. That's all great advice. But I just wanna point out the first thing that you said. I've never actually heard that and I think that is genius. Like the other stuff, I, I think all of it is great. We've talked a lot on this podcast about making lists, but what's interesting about the first thing that you said, most people say, and even I would say, you know, like go out and get mentors. Go out and get coaching, go get people that are gonna help you. And I think that is really important. But what you said is like, pour into someone else, like start mentoring other people and see what part of that like lights you up. And that's so important and so genius because I, I really do think that we all have like this part of us that we wanna help and we want to teach in a way or whatnot. And I never thought of it like that, that they've, once you are pouring into someone, it really is easier to see like what parts of that give you energy and light you up as opposed to like drain you. And what a wonderful way of figuring out what your like special skills are.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Here, I mean, just having a day where you're gonna have the stuff that you, if you are a person feels stuck, you're stuck. You've got stuff that doesn't necessarily, you know, pour into you. Be intentional about creating, like, things that interrupt your regularly scheduled programming that you can both look forward to and that inevitably are about you helping someone else. It just, it it's a, it's a mind hack. It's it like, it's, um, we have a crazy thing about starting your day with what you are grateful for mm-hmm. and we every morning are writing down, you know, be it five things or 10 things that we're grateful for. Like if you can train yourself to be on a lookout for what you have to write down later that day or in the morning, you're gonna be on the lookout for gratitude all day. And it, like, even in the midst of the muck, there's still things that you're gonna find that are gonna change a little bit of the way that you feel. And if it's, you know, being a mentor or being, you know, grateful for a small thing, sometimes that's all you need to jump, you know, like a little jumper cable get you out of thinking that you're stuck. Oh wait, I'm not stuck. I can go, I can run, I can be, I can do. And then next thing you know, you're in the next opportunity.

Speaker 1:
Absolutely. I could not agree more with that. We had a whole episode on gratitude and it has fundamentally changed my life. And I do think it's like the smallest step that you can take that will completely change you and change every day. Yeah. And it's so easy to do. So everyone should definitely do that. Dave, where can people find you guys and watch you world domination and all the incredible, incredible things that you guys are doing?

Speaker 2:
You are so kind. Uh, you can follow us on the innerwebs. We hang out on Instagram and Facebook for the most part. I go by Mr. Dave Hollis. She goes by Ms. Rachel Hollis on Instagram. I'm Dave Hollis and Rachel Hollis on uh, Facebook. We do very bizarrely and, uh, unbelievably different than it was done at Disney halfway Live Morning show. every single weekday at 8:00 AM on Rachel's Instagram and Facebook feed. If you wanna see what freedom looks like, go ahead and turn that on. , uh, we have a podcast together called Rise Together. It comes out on Thursdays on iTunes and everywhere that you listen to podcast, she has a business podcast called Rise. It comes out on Tuesdays. She's got the number one business podcast in the universe. We have the number one relationship podcast in the universe. So good times there. And if you wanna watch what it's like to see Rachel Hollis teach on stage, there is a movie that for $0, if you are a prime member, you can watch today on Amazon called Made for More. Um, but really truly every single thing that you could wanna know lives on the hollis co.com.

Speaker 1:
Wonderful. And I will link to all of those in the show notes in case people can't write it down. Dave, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. I can't tell you how appreciative I am.

Speaker 2:
It has been such a pleasure. I look forward to it. Let me know when we can do it again,

Speaker 1:
. I definitely will. Oh my goodness. How cool is Dave? I could talk to him forever, but here are my three takeaways. One, honor the struggle, ask the hard questions. Do the work of evaluating your life and what you want. Two, nobody is thinking about you. We are all so scared about what everybody thinks and that keeps us living a life that we don't really want. And the truth is, everybody is just worried about their own lives. So take those risks. Nobody is paying attention. And three, I loved this one. I've honestly never heard this and it makes so much sense. But pour into someone else because acts of service show us where we feel the most fulfilled. It will make it clear where you are needed and how you need to show up in this world. So start giving. Hey, if you are looking for more in-depth help with your career, whether that's dealing with all of the stress, worry, and anxiety that's leading to burnout in your current career or figuring out what your dream career is and actually going after it, I want you to join me in the Quitter Club. It is where we quit what is no longer working like perfectionism, people pleasing imposter syndrome, and we start working on what does and we start taking action towards the career and the life that you actually want. We will take the concepts that we talk about on the podcast and apply them to your life and you will get the coaching tools and support that you need to actually make some real change. So go to lessons from a quitter.com/quitter club and get on the wait list. Doors are closed right now, but they will be open soon.