Speaker 1 (00:00:02):
Hey, welcome to Lessons from a Quitter, where we believe that it is never too late to start over. No matter how much time or energy you've spent getting to where you are. If ultimately you are unfulfilled, then it is time to get out. Join me each week for both inspiration and actionable tips so that we can get you on the road to your dreams. Hello my friends. Welcome to another episode. I'm so excited to have you here. Today we're gonna do something a little bit different. I am gonna share with you a podcast that I was a guest on. I was on my friend Claire Pereau's podcast, the Get Paid a Podcast, and I wanna share that episode here with you for a number of reasons. First, I think that there's a lot of new people here. Welcome. I'm so excited to have you here and I had shared my story early on in this podcast and I've shared it in bits and pieces here and there, but I haven't talked in depth for a while about what my journey was on, and I know you guys aren't scrolling back 250 episodes to listen to my journey.
Speaker 1 (00:01:04):
So I wanted an episode to be able to point you to, to show you my entire journey. And let me tell you, we get into the entire journey. If you look at the length of this podcast, you can see that Claire leaves no stone unturned. We talk about my decision to leave law and how I did that and how I ever came up with the idea of the photo booth business and how I invested in it and grew it, and what led to the podcast and how I've grown this podcast. And I think it's helpful for people that don't know my story, but even for people that do, I think oftentimes it's easy to l forget and to see someone and think like, I threw up a podcast and all of a sudden I have a multiple six figure business. And that just is never anybody's story.
Speaker 1 (00:01:46):
It's always a million baby steps. And so I wanna be able to share that episode with you and that journey with you. But more so than that, I want to introduce you to my friend Claire Ptro. If you don't know her, and if you don't listen to the Get Paid podcast, you should. It was such a surprise and an honor when she asked me to be on the show, because this is one of the only podcasts that I listened to when I was starting out my business. And Claire has a way, as you will see through this episode, of asking the questions that most people won't. She is unbelievably real and authentic and vulnerable, not only with her own struggles and her own successes, but with her guests. She really, it's not fluff, it's not, you know, the softball questions that a lot of podcasts asks.
Speaker 1 (00:02:34):
She goes to the questions that everybody is wondering about the business, about how they got there, about their struggles. And she doesn't shy away from difficult topics, which is why her podcast is so beloved in the industry and so revered by everybody in online business. She has had some incredibly big names in the industry, some seven, eight figure businesses. And she really gets just to the nitty gritty of not only how they built it, but what it really means to have a business like that. As you know, if you've listened to me for a while, like one of the values that I have is showing you the truth about not just the entrepreneur journey, but about the human experience, about the fact that there's never a time that it's just daisies and butterflies, right? There's struggles, it's 50 50 and I try to keep it as honest as possible and I really look up to Claire because she does it infinitely better than I do.
Speaker 1 (00:03:26):
And so I'm always trying to learn from her. And so when she asked me to be on the podcast, it was such a huge honor for me. So if you don't follow her, if you don't listen to the podcast, you absolutely should, especially if you have a business or you're thinking about starting a business. I think she can teach you so much about the online business space. But if you just wanna listen to my episode and you wanna know more about my journey, as you will see, we literally talk about my entire life, every step of the way. So take a listen and if you enjoy it, go let Claire know on Instagram at cla Powell's or come let me know. I can't wait to hear what you think about it.
Speaker 2 (00:04:01):
Oh my gosh, thank you for being such a huge inspiration in my life. Thank you for being one of my good friends. Even though what we talk like once, maybe twice a quarter, I have been looking forward to this interview ever since I heard your backstory on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:04:23):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:04:24):
Oh, of course. We'll get to the podcast in a second and to the backstory and all of that. But first, can you tell the good listeners one, what your pronouns are and two, how you get paid? Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:04:34):
My pronouns are she, her and I get paid right now through a membership where I help people that are miserable at work make a decision, either decide to love it and stay or leave it and figure out what the hell they wanna do to be
Speaker 2 (00:04:46):
Happy. Love it. Or leave it.
Speaker 1 (00:04:48):
I know I've actually been thinking about changing the name to love it or leave it, so it's funny you, you picked up on that part. But yeah, it's called The Quitter Club for now because that is a play on my podcast. But okay, we might change it. Who knows what happens on this interview.
Speaker 2 (00:05:00):
Who knows? Do you think you would ever change the name of your podcast?
Speaker 1 (00:05:04):
So it's so funny because my coach was trying to get me to change it and I was like, you can take it from my cold dead hands. Yes, I will not give up my podcast name. So for now, no, it's like such a part of my identity. I feel like my brand for the last like four or five years that I'm like, Ugh, I'm very reluctant to give that up. But I mean, never say never. Who knows. Maybe I will at some point.
Speaker 2 (00:05:24):
Okay. Tell everyone the name of your podcast. Oh yeah. And this identity
Speaker 1 (00:05:28):
. Yeah, it's called Lessons from a Quitter. And we'll talk about this background. Like I started everything kind of backwards in the online space. I just started with that podcast to like interview people. I had no intention of starting a business or being a coach or doing anything. And so it really just started like that in 2018 and it, I feel like that's just been so much of like the brand that I built and the audience that I built that I can't really see myself not having that name.
Speaker 2 (00:05:50):
So Interesting. I didn't know that the podcast came before any offers.
Speaker 1 (00:05:55):
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:05:56):
Okay. So let's go back. How did you end up in this wild world of online business
Speaker 1 (00:06:02):
? How did I become a quitter? Well, like many uh, people, I mean, I was an overachiever, decided at 11 I wanted to be a lawyer, like most 11 year olds apparently do. I became an A lawyer and a successful one at that. And I had a really successful career and I think like a lot of people in a lot of various professions just found myself completely unhappy. Mm-hmm. and very miserable. And so the long story short, I ended up quitting in 2014. So I had practiced for about eight or nine years and then when I had my first son, I ended up quitting because I had to move states. And anyways, it wasn't like with the intention of not going back, but through that postpartum period and stuff, I started really questioning what I was doing. I ended up leaving. I was lost for a very long time.
Speaker 1 (00:06:43):
I was in a very dark period for a couple of years there trying to figure out what it is, like who am I and what do I wanna do? And like all I had ever done was either go to school to be a lawyer, be in law school or be a lawyer. I really felt like I have no other skills, I have no other talents, I don't know anything else. But slowly through that I started another business. I started a photo booth business because I wanted to try entrepreneurship. Like it was very just like, I don't know, let's just experiment and try things. That business led me to, like listening to like Amy Porterfield and a lot of marketing podcasts, I was trying to figure out how to market that business online. And I was just listening to all these online entrepreneurs talk about the stuff they were doing and talk about podcasting.
Speaker 1 (00:07:21):
And I loved the medium of podcasting. I would listen to podcasts like, because I had a toddler at the time. I had, you know, I was at home with my son while I was building this business. So I was like just going through as many podcasts as possible and it, I don't know, at some point planted the seed. I was like, I would love to do this. I would love to interview people, I would love to have these conversations. And then meanwhile, in that couple of years, like a lot of the kind of personal growth that I went through, I was talking to so many of my lawyer friends who were also miserable, right? It wasn't like everybody around me hated what they did. Like I was just normal for me. So I never questioned it until I left. And then when I left, everybody kept having this conversation like, I wish I could quit. How did you leave? Like when I quit, when I originally, I was a federal public defender for a number of years, but when I left my law firm job, I remember quitting to leave to go be a public defender. And the partners there who like had been there for 10 years who were making, you know, in gobs of money, I was like, it's so many of them were like, oh my god, I wish I could quit. You're so lucky. I wish I could go with you. And I was like, you came
Speaker 2 (00:08:20):
In can leave you talk partners. Yeah, I thought, I really thought that you were going to say they were like goalie. What are you thinking? No,
Speaker 1 (00:08:28):
No. That's what I thought too. I was terrified to tell people and every single person I told was like, you are so lucky. I wish I could get away. I wish I could leave. How are you doing it? And then I started having conversations like in that interim, in that like couple of years I would randomly go to parties or I would be at different places and I would be talking to these really like fabulous people and then they would tell me what they were doing and it was like, whatever, you know? It was really interesting. And then when I would tell them I quit being a lawyer, like the same people that that were telling me like, oh yeah, you know, I have a ice cream shop or whatever. They'd be like, oh yeah, I used to be a doctor. I'm like, I'm sorry, what?
Speaker 1 (00:09:00):
Like, wait, what? You had a whole, how did that happen? Tell me that transition. When did you decide? Right. So then I became just obsessed with this idea of like, why are we not talking about all of these people that have quit and move on and do something else? Cuz so many people felt so tied to that identity that like, no, this is all I've ever done. This is all I know. This is what's safe. And so I, the podcast was born out of that. I was just like, I wanna talk to these people that have quit and have completely gone a different direction that have like even if they've spent years and years and you know, hundreds of thousand dollars on their degrees, have decided like, I don't wanna be a doctor. I don't care if I have a PhD. I don't wanna be an engineer anymore. I wanna go be a singer on Broadway. Or I wanna start this business or I'm gonna, you know, whatever. And so the first year of my podcast in 2018 was just me interviewing people. Quitters like was just me getting their story, figuring out how they pushed past that fear, figuring out like how they dealt with all of their family. Telling them like, are you crazy? You can't walk away from this. You've worked so hard. You know? So that was kind of the start of it.
Speaker 2 (00:10:04):
At this point where you are starting the podcast and interviewing people, what was your motivation? Because when I started my podcast, it was completely self-serving. Yeah. To find out like what was a business model I needed to have? Yeah. How many people did I have to have on my list, yada yada. What did I need to charge in order to reach six figures? Mm-hmm . But you had already left.
Speaker 1 (00:10:24):
Yeah, I had already left. And if I'm being completely honest, it definitely was self-serving to a certain extent. One of it was when I was listening to all these podcasts, so this is how like not naive, I think at the time, you know, there was Pat Flynns and the John Lee Dumas's in like 20, 20 17, 20 16 when I was listening, it was like a lot of them talking about how much money they made on podcasting. So I really thought like, oh, I'm just gonna grow an audience and maybe I'll get advertisers. And I really thought like this is a topic that so many people are miserable in their work and they are right. So I was like, like that was the extent of my vision was like how cool would that be if I could grow it enough to get some advertisers and make some money off the podcast?
Speaker 1 (00:11:04):
Like that's my ideal job is to talk to people. Like I love talking . I love it. Like getting people's stories. So if that's all I did, like that was really the extent of my goal. I remember when I started, I was like, I would never be a coach and I would take like a podcasting course and people would talk about like, you can sell your services. And I remember just like scoffing at it, like, I can't help people. I don't know what I'm doing with that. Like I'm just gonna build this audience and somehow monetize it. I don't know how, but at some point maybe this can become the business. I did have that dream, I just didn't know how I was gonna do it. And clearly it did not go in the way that I thought it was gonna go.
Speaker 2 (00:11:39):
So let's take it all the way back . So when you were working in your job or maybe the last job before you quit, like law completely, not necessarily just moving to another type of practice, what were the things that you hated the most?
Speaker 1 (00:11:56):
. Everything. I was a public defender, but I only did death penalty cases. So I, oh my
Speaker 2 (00:12:01):
God , geez goalie death penalty cases.
Speaker 1 (00:12:07):
So I worked in a very intense field where I was representing death row inmates right before their executions. So it was very emotionally charged and it was a topic that was obviously, it's very like polarized. It was a huge emotional drain and I didn't know how to manage my mind back then. I had none of the tools that I had now and they don't teach you any of those tools. So part of it was just a level of burnout. Like I was like, I cannot keep going in my office and crying every day. Like I cannot do this. This is not the life that I wanna live in that sense. Right. So that was part of it. But also part of it was that I just didn't like the practice of law and, and I mean every part of it. I didn't like being alone in an office by myself writing motions for 12 hours a day.
Speaker 1 (00:12:51):
I didn't like the intensity of like, everything is a fire, everything's an emergency, you're working insane hours. Like I can't tell you how many 24 hour periods I would work like straight through and it's just not sustainable. This was before I had a child, so it was fine. And it's funny, when I left I didn't even know this is how long naive I am. Like when I left I realized there's a huge problem. I mean I knew there was a drug problem, but like everyone's on Adderall, lots of people are doing like cocaine or things like that to be able to keep up because it's just so much work and so pressured and like stressful. I wasn't doing any of that stuff, but I just also was not keeping up. I was like, I, I can't work like this, you know? And when I quit, the impetus was like I actually was really passionate about the death penalty work I was doing.
Speaker 1 (00:13:35):
And so that's, my identity was very much tied into like being that social justice attorney and like helping people that are voiceless and being in a system that's so up. But when I left and I was, we moved back from Arizona to California and I had to get a different job. That's sort of when like every job description I would get this like pit in my stomach and I was like, I don't want to do this. Mm-hmm. I don't want to write motions, I don't wanna do this research. I don't want to be working on nights and weekends. Like now that I have this baby, I don't want to like that. When you work in a firm, it's like your time is billed every six minute increments. Like you have to know what you're doing for every six. It's just honestly like I was like this is just the most miserable, I do not wanna do this for the next 35 years.
Speaker 1 (00:14:15):
Mm-hmm. . And so it sort of came to a head. It wasn't that it was yes. Like the F P D was really emotionally charged for me and it was more than I could handle and I was very burned out. But I also like saw there's no other job in law that I wanna do, there's nothing else. And I'm like, oh that sounds interesting. Cause I knew what the day-to-day was. Even if like overarching it looks interesting, like it looks really cool, like you're doing human rights law like civil, you know, civil rights or you're working for these really great organizations, this like day-to-day grind of it really grinds you down to the point where like you're like, I would just say the vast majority of lawyers are unhappy. And I was like, I just don't, don't wanna live like that. Like I'm not willing to Marty my whole life for this.
Speaker 2 (00:14:54):
Okay. Question you said that now you know how to manage your mind in a way that you did not as a public defender. And the listeners should know because many people have heard me talk about me like turning towards mindset work in 2022 and the huge impact that that had and f Y I, that was basically because of goalie
Speaker 1 (00:15:16):
. I'll go ahead and take credit for that
Speaker 2 (00:15:18):
Now. Take it. I mean I'm so grateful for it. But here's my question. Do you think that if you had the skills now back then, do you think it would've been enough to actually stave off burnout?
Speaker 1 (00:15:34):
Speaker 2 (00:15:35):
Were you essentially working on getting stays of execution? Yes. Uhhuh. . And what percentage of the time did that work?
Speaker 1 (00:15:42):
No, none. Like less than 1%.
Speaker 2 (00:15:45):
Oh my god. Yeah. You're working to literally, literally save people's lives. Yeah. And you And
Speaker 1 (00:15:51):
You're losing all the time. You're losing. Yeah. So yes and no. So I'm gonna answer it in two parts. Yes. I absolutely think that it could have saved off burnout. So one of the things that I teach my clients a lot and I work with a lot of people is like, you have to get really clear of how you're defining your role. And when you don't know how to manage your mind when I like this is the thing, you really see the faulty thinking when like I'm gonna go to a role where the success rate is less than 1%, right? Mm-hmm. I should temper my own expectations to know that you're not gonna win them mostly. So what is your role in this? Your role is to make sure that you try whatever the it is that you can to the extent that you can and you have human limitations and it's to make sure that like the law is being followed and that people aren't cutting corners and that pe you know, people aren't abusing their power and like that's what you're there for.
Speaker 1 (00:16:39):
You're that kind of a guardian, not you're there to save every single person. So when you put the pressure that like, I have to save everybody, of course you're gonna burn yourself out. But that's, that was never my role. I just didn't know that. Nobody told me that. You know, like they don't even know that. I think a lot of people go in there with this like savior complex of like, I'm gonna save everyone. And it's like, no you're not because you're in a broken system that's not gonna listen to you. So like you have to go really defining what is my role here. And I think if I had done that and I really knew like one, there's like systemic limitations and two, there's human limitations of mine. Like I have a time energy limit so I cannot give everything and is it better for me to be able to, let's say give 70% and be able to stay long term or give a hundred percent and burnout after two years, right?
Speaker 1 (00:17:26):
Like it's like you have to start really thinking about maybe it's the best thing for me to not give in my all because that keeps me in the game as opposed to like we've been so conditioned to believe like you gotta give it your all and you have to give 110% and, and we all do this and then we get burned out. So for the burnout question, yes, I absolutely think these tools kind of helped me see for the weather. I, I don't think my personality is suited for law. So I don't think, no, any amount of like mindset work wouldn't have gotten me to be like, I love doing this every day because I don't, you know? And so I think I could have done it from a less desperate, panicked place. I could have left on my own terms to be like, Hey, this isn't for me and I don't need to have all the shame and guilt about it and like I have this one life and I wanna try something more fun or you know. And like I said, like I got to the place now where I was like, I don't need to Marty my whole life. I didn't think that back then. I was just like covered in shame and guilt about leaving. And so I think I could have made that transition much easier for myself. I still don't think I would've stayed. Got
Speaker 2 (00:18:23):
It. I was specifically interested in how does one, because there are so many public defenders of people on death row listening to my podcast right now, , , um, it really seems like the environment in which to cause like the downfall of people's Yeah. Souls or something. But I love that idea about managing expectations. Yeah. And, and I'm wondering like who was listening right now thinking, oh, maybe if I just gave 70%
Speaker 1 (00:18:50):
Yes. My entire brand is like, can't we just give 70%? And I think everybody listening, I don't care what you're doing. Define your role. Define your role as a mother. Like so many of us don't realize that we have these ridiculous roles. Like my children can never be upset and I have to make sure they're always happy. And if anything goes wrong, I'm the one that has to fix it and I have to, you know, it's like you don't live by that consciously, but you're subconsciously thinking that you failed or you're feeling guilty if you miss one performance or you do, you know, it's like you're, you're just creating a role for yourself that you're always going to fall short of and then you're gonna feel guilty and people work on the guilt but it's like you gotta change the role. You gotta like understand what is the standard I'm setting for myself, whether that's in my job and it's like I've been conditioned to like corporate America's BS of like 110% and always give your best and you have to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:19:39):
Or it's like even in my home roles, even as like a friend, as a wife, as a mother, you know, whoever it is like as a business owner, you know as a coach, like is my expectation that I'm always gonna be the best coach and I'm always gonna give the best advice and I'm always gonna solve their problems. Like that's gonna not turn out great for me, right? Mm-hmm . So it's like how do I define how I show up at like what can I control how I show up as a coach? Anyways, I would just suggest that you do that really for all the roles that you play in your life. Great.
Speaker 2 (00:20:05):
So then going back to when you were looking at jobs and like feeling this blah, I don't wanna do this. You had newborn or young baby and you had just moved, correct? Mm-hmm . So then did you get one of those jobs or did you just never go
Speaker 1 (00:20:20):
Back? Yeah, so my transition was like I had taken the lovely US government gave me 12 weeks unpaid for my, my maternity leave. So I had had three months unpaid and my whole plan was like to go back and it sort of happened very randomly. We had been looking for a house to move back to California for a year. We couldn't find a house at the time. It just so happened like right after I, my son a house came that accepted our offer. So it all really like was very unexpected for me. I wasn't expecting to quit. I ended up quitting and I was really relieved cuz I wasn't ready to go back after 12 weeks. So I wanted to be with my son for about thinking six months. But then we moved to California, which the cost of living is more expensive and we had enough saved.
Speaker 1 (00:20:59):
Like my husband and I, we were like okay, we can swing it on his salary for about a year if we needed to, we have enough. But I hadn't been thinking about that. I was like, okay, we're gonna go, I'm gonna get a job. And then, you know, I went through this whole process of being like very unhappy and mind you, I was also going through a lot of postpartum stuff like postpartum depression. My son was very difficult, a very difficult baby. He cried eight to 12 hours a day every single day. So I was like in a very dark place in that time and I couldn't even like get myself to really like look for jobs and my god bless my husband, he was the one that really started like, like we're not in a rush right now. Like why don't you just slow down and like you can get a job later.
Speaker 1 (00:21:36):
You can not get a job. We'll figure it out. And so I sort of just slowed down a little bit and was like, I can't like work right now. And then in that interim, me and my husband kept having all these conversations about like he was the one that really planted the seed. He kept being like, well if you hate it so much, like why don't you try something else? And I remember in the beginning like rolling my eyes and being like, oh try something else. What are you talking about? Like I have spent a hundred thousand dollars and God knows how many years like getting here. Like this is all I know, whatever. But he planted a seed and I kept thinking about it like, can I just get another type of job? Can I maybe work for a nonprofit? Can I just not be a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (00:22:13):
Quick question just about him. At the time your husband had, he already started his business?
Speaker 1 (00:22:18):
Yes. So my, at this time, my husband had started his business in 2004. So this is, we're talking about 2014. So he was about 10 years into his business and his business was stable and you know, they had a number of employees, it was a couple of partners. He had his yearly kind of salary and sometimes distributions based on the business. But it was like a job, like any other job at that point. But yeah, it was a stable company that he was running.
Speaker 2 (00:22:40):
He at least started an entrepreneurship before you did. Yes. So
Speaker 1 (00:22:43):
A hundred percent. And yet that mindset, right? Mm-hmm . So he was like, it's not as hard as you think it is and you could start a business. Cause I had so many limiting thoughts about like the fact that I know nothing about business and I can't do anything like that. So he was definitely the impetus of like pushing me to consider other things. And then I sort of gave myself this arbitrary deadline, which a lot of my clients do now too. It's like I was like, okay, I'll give myself a year, I'll give the first year of my kids life and I, you know, you hear all these things, it's like when they nap I'll build my empire. And it's like, yeah, exactly. No you won't cuz you're exhausted and you're like either stuffing your face or crying or sleeping. Like that's what you're doing in that first year. And so, well at least me with my son.
Speaker 2 (00:23:22):
No, no, that's the perfect summary. Stuffing your face. Crying or sleeping.
Speaker 1 (00:23:28):
Yeah, I mean that's literally all I did. And so lo and behold, the year came and went and I did make a lot of shifts like mentally in the sense that I, we talked about it so much and I thought about it and I had started listening to some podcast like he had given me so sweet. He had given me like Tony Robbins stuff even though I, I like can't say Antonio Robbins but like at the time it was helping me just rethink the way I was thinking about things cuz I was so like doom and gloom and like this is the end of the world. I was grieving that part of my identity very hard because like all I had ever wanted to be was a lawyer. Like I never had any doubts about going to law school. I wasn't the person that like just randomly chose it.
Speaker 1 (00:24:03):
Like that's all I had ever worked for. And so I really spent that year mostly just wrapping my own head around the fact of like, what does this mean if I don't do this or if I'm not this person or what would I ever do? Or what are people gonna say and what is everyone gonna think? And I'm such a failure. I mean I was applying for some jobs, I was looking at some nonprofits, I was looking at some other like tangentially related law jobs, things that like maybe a law degree could help you in. I like half-heartedly applied for a couple of jobs, but that year I was just trying to keep my head above water with my son and figure out like am I really gonna tell people I'm no longer gonna be a lawyer? And like that was really how I spent 2014.
Speaker 2 (00:24:40):
Okay. So tell us about the beginning of the photo booth business.
Speaker 1 (00:24:45):
In that interim. Because I was so confused about what I wanted to do and this is honestly the process that I teach people. It's like, it's not a process, it's just experimenting. And I wanted to get outta the house so badly cuz my son would cry all day. That when my husband would come home, this was like back in the day where there wasn't like all these Facebook groups and stuff. I would just find meetups, local meetups and I would go to see what other people do for work. I was like, I just need to go meet people and figure out what the hell they're doing to make money and maybe I'll get
Speaker 2 (00:25:11):
An idea. Do you know how smart that is? Like that wouldn't occur to most people. Like I need to see what other people do. Yeah. For a living. Well
Speaker 1 (00:25:20):
Because I kept thinking that, you know, you don't know what you don't know and like you see what these other people have random job titles I wouldn't even know to search. Like I don't even know what that is. Mm-hmm . So I really was like, I just need to like learn what people do cuz all I had ever been was in the legal field. So I just didn't even know what other fields existed to be honest. I was like, I know, I know doctor, I know engineer, I know those things. But I'm like, there's a lot of things in between that that like, I don't understand what people say. Like they're a product manager, what the hell does that mean ? No idea what that is. Right? So I started just like I went to the most random meetups that I did not belong in. I went to creative meetups, like for graphic designers. I went to engineering meetups for people like building robotics. And then I stumbled upon a entrepreneurship, like a startup, tech startup meetup where again, I had so many thoughts, I was like I will never start a business. All this BS I had. But
Speaker 2 (00:26:12):
Why were you saying that? Oh
Speaker 1 (00:26:14):
Lord, who knows. I really had never been interested in business. So I didn't know the first thing about it. I just didn't think it was for me. Like it wasn't, I'm a risk averse person. I'd never grown up with entrepreneurs around me. I didn't know what, like I just, it was in another world. And then I also had a lot of thoughts about like capitalism and inequalities. Even though it's so funny, my husband was an entrepreneur and I would always rail against , like how much business is ruining the world? And he's like, I own a business goal . Like I know, but so I just had my own hangups with it. And so I just like cut it off as an option. But then I went to a tech startup meetup and it was like one of those sharks tank style where people were getting up on stage like pitching and it was the most fun meetup I've ever been to.
Speaker 1 (00:26:59):
And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. Everybody's so happy. Everybody loves what they do. I've like never been a part of this, you know? And so I was so intrigued that I just started coming back every month to their meetup. Like they had a meetup once a month and I had no intention. I was just like, I just wanna be around this energy. I just wanna be around people that are happy and like talking about their products as this the coolest thing. And the more I started going and to be honest, like this might sound bad, but we're just good at like, I started seeing people and I'm like, why did they have all this confidence to go up there and pitch a random product? Like it was like a 23 year old who had never done anything, you know, with like asking for a million dollars to invest.
Speaker 1 (00:27:40):
And I'm like, wait, how what? And I was like, I'm just as smart, why do I think I can't do this? You know? Mm-hmm . And so I had been like really like thinking about like, well if I was gonna start a business what would it be? And like, I don't know, you know like it, it is just sort of like percolated. And then around that time, so this is like I'd started this around when my son was six months old, I'd started going to these meetups thinking about what I wanted to do when he was almost a year old for his birthday. I wanted a photo booth but I didn't wanna set a thousand dollars renting a photo booth. Like it wasn't a wedding. So I was like talking to my husband, he's an engineer so I was like there, how can we not just set up the iPad to like set up a photo booth like this seems like it should be something.
Speaker 1 (00:28:21):
And he was like, oh, I've set up a photo booth for a client for a trade show. So that just started it. We just started like creating like, can't there be an iPad based booth? I don't need a D S L R. I don't need it to be like super fancy. I don't want at an attendant, I just want something that's like lets people put on, you know, those like silly hats or whatever and make faces and stuff. So that sort of started that. We started making it and I kept looking online and there was nothing at the time. This was like, you know, end of 2014 and I was like, I feel like people would pay for this because you could use it at your birthday parties at like your frat parties at all these things that you're not gonna pay a bunch of money for a photo booth.
Speaker 1 (00:28:57):
But like everyone loves a photo booth. And so I was sort of like, you know, in search of a problem I was like, I wanna start a business. I have no idea what I'm gonna do. This isn't something that I'm like super passionate about. But I had the wherewithal to realize if I don't get started, I'll sit and think about it forever. Like there's no perfect product. And now that I think back, I did actually go down some other rabbit holes I was thinking about, this was before this even happened. Like I was gonna start a baby food delivery service. Cuz at the time with my son there was only like the Gerber, you know, jarred on the shelf food. Like now there's a bunch, but there was nothing. And I used to make, or my mom would help like make a bunch of like lamb and potatoes that you would mash up for your kid and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:29:37):
And I was like, but there aren't anything like that that people can just buy. So I had had started that. So I, what I mean is like I was just in search of a business and when I came upon this like photo booth idea and I was like, this could be something where you could even ship it to people and they could ship it back. You don't have to like be there, you could help them set it up. That sort of took me to town that year long road, like all of 2015 was spent building this like portable photo booth that I would manufacture and rent. And that was my first
Speaker 2 (00:30:05):
Business. Wait, so you would manufacture?
Speaker 1 (00:30:08):
Yeah like so let, as an aside for anyone deciding to start a business, maybe don't pick one that requires both hardware and software. That was my first mistake. But my husband also is in manufacturing so I had someone to help me figure out, he doesn't manufacture this kind of stuff, but like he knows the language, he knew the people like to put me in contact with. So originally I had set up one prototype to just rent, but then I was like, well I need to either make more for myself to be able to scale this or other photo booth companies may wanna buy a booth to add to theirs. So then I got into like small batch manufacturing, like where it was only gonna be like 25 at a time and then I was gonna either sell them or rent them. So that took me like a year to like design the booth, find a designer, find manufacturers, manufacture the booth, get software. Meanwhile I was renting them the ones with the prototypes I had so I could see like customer like feedback and see how people used it and get kind of brand recognition. So I was doing all
Speaker 2 (00:31:03):
That. And how much did you spend on the manufacturing that year? I
Speaker 1 (00:31:08):
Actually, um, well and I, I shouldn't say not that much. I guess it's like relative, not as much as I think you would think. I ended up, I think my first batch of manufacturing, I spent like $25,000 for 25 boots and I knew I could sell them for more than a thousand dollars. So I wasn't as worried cuz I was like, I know push comes to shov. If I have to liquidate this I could just sell these booths for a thousand dollars and get my money back. So that's why I was sort of okay with going down that road. Cause like doing manufacturing, like let's say if you wanna go overseas and you wanna make molds and you wanna do all that stuff and you wanna dolar like hundreds, like then you have to do a really serious kind of capital investment. But I had found, this is why these meetups, I, I found my designer there who was a designer in a school and he just did it for like next to nothing. I found my manufacturer there who was just a guy that worked in a like wood shop, like this shop that does manufacturing that how, and he just wanted the experience. So he did it for much cheaper than I would've gotten it at other places.
Speaker 2 (00:32:04):
Ooh. And where did you get the 25 k to do that? Yeah, I know it wasn't all upfront.
Speaker 1 (00:32:10):
No, it wasn't all upfront at the time. I had been renting it out for like, by the time I got to the point of like selling 'em and getting to the, like the design I had been renting. So some of that came from the business, not like, because we were living off of my husband's salary. Like I didn't, whatever I was renting, I was just like keeping in my bank account. Mm-hmm . And then part of it was just like from our savings, like me and my husband when we had talked about it, and again I think we had put like 15,000 of it from our savings and it came with the idea of like, okay, if I can't sell these at like the markup that I wanted to sell them, I can just liquidate and get the 15,000 back.
Speaker 2 (00:32:47):
Cool. So it, it was like essentially a really straightforward loan from your personal Yes. Savings. Cool. Awesome. Yeah. What happened with all of those?
Speaker 1 (00:32:58):
It took me a while to get that. I think like I didn't actually get the booths up to like 2016, but basically between 2016 and 2019 that's what I did. I grew that business. I think I did like two more runs of the manufacturing. I sold a lot of the booths to people, other people that wanted to start photo booth businesses or two people that had DSLR booths but they wanted like a cheaper version. I rented them all the time and I, and I had created a business model that wasn't really around. So what it was was I had it packed and you could basically pick it up from me, take it, have it for your whole event and then drop it off the next day. And it was something like 250 bucks or 300 bucks or something for, and you get all the photos and you get your own graphic or whatnot.
Speaker 1 (00:33:40):
Or I had like a V I P package where we come and drop it off and you know, come pick it up. So I was doing tons of events but what was great was like I wasn't doing anything. Like they would come pick it up for me and then take it and you know, pay me 300. And so I had like three or four booths. I was renting them out, people would pick 'em up. I was starting to get a lot of corporate events, which was awesome cuz like they would put it in their company for like a whole week. So they would pay me for the week and they would set it up. Yeah, exactly. So I would make like two or three K just with the booth being somewhere. I did a lot of events for like Lululemon, SoulCycle and all these places that wanted to put it in the like in order to track, you know like cuz then people would share the gifts, the animated gifts, so the boomerangs on social media with their brand. So I started doing a lot of that stuff. Um,
Speaker 2 (00:34:23):
But how did Lululemon find you? Or
Speaker 1 (00:34:25):
I found them. I found, no, I found them. This was so much just me hustling like look at you. I would go, I'm listen, I am persistent af like I started going to a lot of businesses including Lululemon, like places that were having events. I would go and I would meet their marketing, I would ask to talk to their manager and I didn't know how these places worked. Each place was different. But what was great like about Lululemon is like each store had their own budget and they had their own marketing manager. So I would like go to one mall and be like, Hey, I have this booth, you can use it for free for an event. Like no strings attached. Just tell me what you think about it. Because I knew once they used it they would love it and they would want it again.
Speaker 1 (00:34:59):
Mm-hmm . So then that marketing manager, like she would be in one city and then the Lululemon and they all knew each other obviously like, and they'd be like, oh. And then I'd start getting calls, be like, can you bring it to the Lululemon here we want it, we're doing our, you know, anniversary event or we're doing this yoga event or we're doing whatever. And then other people would see it at those events. I would have cards so like the people that were going to the event would then call me for birthday parties and stuff or be like, oh I'm having, so it was just like word of mouth. I would do it at like hair salons cuz people would get like blowouts and wanna, you know, would want their hair like shown uhhuh . I would do it at like places like, yeah I just like really was like where would people want to take a photo and then post it online And it could be like brand recognition for that brand.
Speaker 1 (00:35:38):
And again, it's like nine outta 10 would never call me again. But one would end up becoming a repeat customer that would like rent it for weeks and weeks at a time every single year. And then in the same time I was having a lot of talks with some investors about scaling it cause I had sort of proven the concept. So it was like how would we create this where would be in multiple cities where you know, either there would be a locker where people could pick it up or there would be a delivery or could we ship it. I started then looking like, okay, this is a proof of concept. I'm not making that much to be honest for me. Cuz I wasn't really pushing the rentals. Like I wasn't running Facebook ads or doing that kind of stuff because I was mostly like, okay, if this works, can I scale this for it to become like either a nationwide or a franchise where like other people buy it and they're running it in their city. So I was sort of starting in that route in like 20 17, 20 18 and meanwhile like deciding to start this podcast and not being as stoked on the photo with business, not really wanting to scale it. So that was sort of what,
Speaker 2 (00:36:36):
Why do you think that was that you didn't really wanna scale
Speaker 1 (00:36:38):
It? Cause I wasn't passionate about it. I didn't actually care about a photo booth. Like I wasn't like, oh my god, I don't know, I like whether you had a photo booth for your party or not wasn't that exciting to me, right? Mm-hmm And at the time I was getting so into mindset work for myself and like just to be able to kind of go on this entrepreneurial journey and I felt like this is the kind of the secret to life. And I really was so excited about having these conversations, like having a podcast and I remember my husband like, oh he's like the most supportive, but he was like really reluctant for me to start a podcast cuz he was like, you don't have that much time. You already have a business that's working. Why aren't you scaling this? Like, why are you going to something else now?
Speaker 1 (00:37:14):
And I didn't know I, I didn't have an answer, but I was like, I just have this feeling that I, I need to do this other thing. Like I'll do it on the side. But deep down I was just like, oh. So I had a conversation which actually has really informed how I even grew my coaching business. But I did one investment pitch with, it was a group of people and there was one woman in it and she honestly changed the way I think about things. But after the pitch I was in the restroom and she came in the bathroom and she said, oh
Speaker 2 (00:37:40):
Sorry, this was a you, you did your pitch and then you're in the bathroom. Okay,
Speaker 1 (00:37:44):
Yeah. For the photo booth to get money from them to scale. Got it. Okay. So like the pitch was like, Hey, do you wanna invest? They were asking all the right questions. The meeting went well and then I was gonna the bathroom and she came in the bathroom and she was like, listen, you just need, really need to think about what kind of business you want. Okay. You could keep this as a lifestyle business. You're gonna, you can be home with your kids. You can make a hundred, $200,000 a year. Rent it out, sell the boots the way that you're doing it and you can have that business, have a couple contractors and that could be your business or you can try to scale, but it's gonna look like a very different business. You are gonna work a lot more hours. Investors aren't giving you money because they like you.
Speaker 1 (00:38:18):
They're giving you money cuz they wanna return. Which like I understood, you know, obviously I knew. But when she put it in that way, she was just like, you just have to decide what do you want and why do you want it? Right? And really at the time, oh at the time I did that pitch, I was like four months pregnant. They didn't with my daughter and I didn't tell anybody yet obviously in that pitch. Cause I didn't know where that was gonna lead. But I really started like thinking like, what do I want? Like I don't wanna go back to what I was doing at the law. I don't want it to be 80 hour weeks when I'm trying to scale this and I'm trying to like get all this money and I have all this pressure from people and why do I care?
Speaker 1 (00:38:50):
Like I don't, you know, the photo booth is not that exciting to me. And so I think it was like a lot of those conversations getting pregnant, wanting to have my second child that I really was just like reevaluating. Like okay, I sort of proved to myself that I could get this business off the ground. That I could create a product. Like I think a lot of that first business was me just trying to prove to myself that I am smart enough. I guess I don't know that I can do this. And when I got to that, like in 2018, I didn't verbalize it, but it was more of like, I just don't love it. It's not exciting to me. I'm not that like jazzed about scaling it. I don't wanna spend a ton of hours on it. And so I think like subconsciously I was just like, well let me just try this other hobby that I think would be fun. But I think like, you know, if we're being honest with ourselves, like I was really hoping that there would something else that I could kind of transition out of the photo booth from.
Speaker 2 (00:39:39):
Hmm. I wonder what that woman saw in you. Yeah. To say this, to do it privately. Yeah. You know, to not say it in front of other people. I, I
Speaker 1 (00:39:49):
Don't think it was, and I don't think it was a bad thing. Like, now that I say it, I think it was part of the discussion that had come up in the pitch Okay. Was just like, what is the vision? Where is this going? Like what, why not? You know? And I think it was just a continuation of that conversation. Okay. And I think what she was just saying and I, I didn't take it in the sense of like, it may sound like what she was like discouraging me from doing this. I think again, like even as we talk about our coaching business, like later when we'll get to, I think sometimes people just scale for the sake of scaling cuz it's ego mm-hmm. . And it's like, I just need to have the biggest business, I need to grow the most. And you lose so much of like the quality of life that you're going for or even the money that you make.
Speaker 1 (00:40:27):
Like so many people are trying to get to million dollar businesses and losing all profit, not really taking home. It's like, is that what you want? And if you want, that's great. If you wanna go for like the, maybe y'all hit it big and it's gonna be five, you know, eight years of intense work and like, I wanna go for that glory great. But is that really what you want? And I, I, I think it was just a continuation of what we had talked about in the meeting and she was just like, yeah, you just have to decide like, do you want this or do you want that? Okay. I
Speaker 2 (00:40:52):
Was slightly concerned that it was like, oh, she's a woman, so no, let's make sure she doesn't wanna be barefoot in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (00:40:59):
No, in fact, no, no. That investment group only invested in women bus owned businesses. And that's why I was like taking a meeting with them and they were actually really interested because like they wanted to help women grow. I think it was just like, yeah, I think maybe it was what I had said or what had come up and she was just like, yeah, like it's totally fine if you just keep this as a lifestyle investment a business like Got it. You don't have to grow it.
Speaker 2 (00:41:20):
Okay, cool. I'm always looking out for the patriarchy is us . I appreciate that. But I totally, let me just say, I really, really identify with the, like the husband, your, your husband sounds very much like mine in terms of the support, but also what are you doing ? You could be making so much money over here. Yeah. Why are you starting something else new? Yeah, I've heard that so many times. Love him, but he's also like, and he and he's been right. Like why are you starting something else, I guess? Well,
Speaker 1 (00:41:50):
And that's the thing is like I wasn't communicating because I was also, I had so many doubts and I had so many fears. I wasn't communicating, like I wasn't telling my husband like, I don't wanna do the photo booth. Right. Because I was ashamed to say that because like, I had just, I had quit the law and I was like, okay, like I've building this. And he had been so supportive and we'd put our own money into it. And you know, on the face of what I was saying, it didn't make sense. He's like, I don't get it. You have this business that's working, why are you distracting yourself with a podcast and it's just gonna be a hobby. Like why are you spending your time on that? Hmm. And I didn't have the courage to be like, I just hope that it'll replace, you know, I don't wanna do the photo booth.
Speaker 1 (00:42:27):
At the time I wasn't ready to kind of admit that. Yeah. So I was sort of like, you know what, just please just trust me on this or support me on this. I know you don't get it. And I, I can't explain why, but I just wanna try this. And he was like, for, to give him credit once I like told him like, I'm not asking for your permission. I really just need your support here, I wanna do this. He was like, do it. Do whatever you wanna do. Like I'll help. Tell me how to help. I just don't get it because like you have a finite amount of time and you're trying to build this business. Like, he was like, why don't you start a podcast for the photo booth? And I'm like, I don't wanna
Speaker 2 (00:42:57):
. Right. Yeah. Why don't you start a podcast about Facebook ads? Hell no. Boring. Okay. Sorry . This is just so interesting. Okay, so it's 2018, right?
Speaker 1 (00:43:08):
Speaker 2 (00:43:09):
You start the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:43:10):
Start the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:43:11):
And does it meet all of your dreams? Immediately? It,
Speaker 1 (00:43:16):
It actually did. It was, I started like mid 2018 and I am telling you I was lit up doing it like it was cool. It was the funnest thing I had done. It was sort of like where I really found like, oh my God, I'm getting closer to like what I'm supposed to be doing. Like what lights me up? Because I was so stoked to talk to people. I was so stoked to have these conversations. I was also terrified to put it out there. By the way, I just want like everyone to understand that like when I quit in 2014, it's not like you make like an a grand announcement to my whole community that I'm quitting. It was like you sort of like, you know, drift into the background. Like my close family obviously knew, but like my whole circle had been my law school friends, my law firm friends, my F P D friends.
Speaker 1 (00:44:00):
Like that's everyone I was friends with on social media. I hadn't been on social media really. Like I built this business that was more of quote unquote acceptable. But like now I'm coming out with a podcast titled Lessons from a Quitter and I'm talking to people about quitting. I had panic attacks before I put this out. Wow. Like I really like the day before I was like, I told my husband I was gonna pull a plug. I'm like, I cannot put this out there. So when I say this, like I was lit up in doing it, but I was also so terrified to like put that out there to everybody that like I quit and I'm not going back to law and I hated the law and like talk about like kinda my struggles with it. But once I got it out there and I was doing it, I really was like, podcasting is a thing for me. I love it so much. I could talk to people all day long. I could do like a hundred interviews. I was just so into it.
Speaker 2 (00:44:46):
So when did the coaching business start? So
Speaker 1 (00:44:49):
That didn't start until 2019. So I did it for about a year. I did interviews and then in that time I just kept getting the same questions and I kept thinking I can't help people. But then they would ask me questions that I had answers to and I kept like just helping them in the dms or helping them in emails. And people would be like, I'm really struggling with this. And I started doing like random, I think free zoom meetings just to like have everybody come and like talk about like yeah, this is the same issue we're all dealing with. And it started in that and I started really thinking like, well can I help people? And you know, I was at that point like seeing so many other coaches and so many people really do like tell you like whatever you have to teach from your like process and your experience can help someone else. So I started thinking about it and then at the end of 2019 I was like, well let me just see if I do something super cheap and just do like a group program for like three months and let's just see. Like I really did it as like, worst comes to worst, I'll refund everyone's money. Like I won't take that much money and I'll see if people like it and I'll see if people come and we'll just experiment. And so I did that. Did
Speaker 2 (00:45:47):
You have an email list related to the podcast? I did. Okay. But but that was, but that was the only thing like yeah,
Speaker 1 (00:45:54):
Well, well I had my Instagram, like I'd grown on my social media and the one smart thing I did is like, because I had been listening to a me Porterfield, like I started an email list not knowing like I just created a free because oh, people kept asking me, how do you figure out what you should do, what you wanna do? So I just made a P D F of like the five things that I did or like that I tell people to do. And I was like, you can sign up for this and you'll can get on my email list and I can tell you about the podcast every week. You know. So then when I, I just put it out to the email list and I got the 10 people. I mean I was charging like $150 a month for four sessions. Like it was like very cheap. Okay. But I was like, I just wanna see will people show up? Do I know how to lead them? I, I hadn't done a certification, I hadn't done anything at that point. So that was the end of 2019. I made $10,000 that year and that $10,000 blew my
Speaker 2 (00:46:38):
From the coaching
Speaker 1 (00:46:39):
Just from that.
Speaker 2 (00:46:40):
From that group.
Speaker 1 (00:46:41):
Awesome group. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:46:43):
10 K for your first launch, you didn't even go to one to one.
Speaker 1 (00:46:47):
I didn't do one online. Went
Speaker 2 (00:46:49):
Straight to group. I love it. It but,
Speaker 1 (00:46:51):
Cause I spent a year building an audience. Like I did it backwards, do you know what I mean? Like I don't recommend that it took me so much longer to get to that 10 k. Whereas like if I had done one-to-one, I could have made money much faster and like built my skills as a coach much faster. It wasn't really on my radar. So yeah, by the time I did it I was like let's just do group. Cause it was enough people asking for help and I was like I can't do one-on-one right now. So yeah, we just did that and made 10 K 2019. That was like the best 10,000 I've ever made. Cause I was like, people will pay me to just talk to me. What is this? Like I can actually help them. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:47:25):
Well do you have any idea about like how many people were listening to your podcast at the time? Like Um,
Speaker 1 (00:47:31):
At the time I wanna say I was probably getting like 400, 500 downloads on each episode. Like at the like seven day thing, you know like 400 down at the time. Like three or 400 maybe that per year was less. I don't know, something like that. Okay,
Speaker 2 (00:47:44):
Great. So not huge.
Speaker 1 (00:47:46):
Not huge because
Speaker 2 (00:47:47):
You said I spent all this time building an audience as if like you had thousands of people Yeah. Who could take one of these 10 spots you didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:47:57):
Sure. I guess yes. But I feel like I did spend a year nurturing people where like I didn't sell them anything so they trusted me and like when I sold them it was like, and it was very affordable. I think that there was 10 people that were like, yeah, I'll try this out for 150 bucks a month. You know,
Speaker 2 (00:48:13):
I just wanna acknowledge that cause you said like I did it backwards. Yeah. It's not the right way. Sounds like a perfect way. .
Speaker 1 (00:48:21):
Yeah, it worked for me. It definitely worked. Cool.
Speaker 2 (00:48:24):
Yeah. Okay, so that was end of 2019 and you're heading into 2020 with this group. And then what happened?
Speaker 1 (00:48:32):
Then the pandemic happened and what was fascinating about that and I'm again like this is ridiculous that I couldn't just admit it to myself, but I was like relieved because the photo booth business just stopped.
Speaker 2 (00:48:46):
Speaker 1 (00:48:47):
Right. So it was almost like I didn't have to make a decision. So like my coaching business was starting, pandemic happened and there was no more events. So I was like well I can't rent them out anymore.
Speaker 2 (00:48:56):
That's so handy. You didn't have to quit.
Speaker 1 (00:48:59):
I didn't have to quit. It quit me. It was awesome. So I was like, well this is, you know, I can go more all in on the coaching business. Which I had decided like after that kind of test in 2019, I had like been building a process as I was working with these people I was like figuring out where they're getting stuck. I did another group, I don't remember exactly but I launched and then when the pandemic happened, so I was in one group and then right when the pandemic happened and the photo booth business kind of stopped. I just like made instant decision to like get certified at the life coach school. I was, it was like they had opened the doors again because, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go on all in on this coaching. And I had been using the model on myself and I had been listening to Be Castillo and it, that is really like the way that mindset work made sense to me. So I just got certified but I was selling through and I just grew it through that. So like that second year in 2020 I think I made close to a hundred thousand. I mean like 93,000 that fullest full year.
Speaker 2 (00:49:49):
Speaker 1 (00:49:51):
Speaker 2 (00:49:52):
All with group.
Speaker 1 (00:49:53):
All with group. All with group.
Speaker 2 (00:49:54):
Wow. And so you must have paid, I forget what certification was back then. Like tell me, do you remember your other expenses that year?
Speaker 1 (00:50:03):
I think that was my only expense. I think I had a VA at that time too, but that was like a couple hundred bucks a week. Like maybe 200. I was paying her, she was doing just like podcast uploading and things like that. Oh I had podcast editor from the beginning so I did pay for that. It was just certification that year is all I paid for. Okay. So, and I think that at the time was 15,000.
Speaker 2 (00:50:21):
Got it. Cool. Yeah. And so you just did group like
Speaker 1 (00:50:25):
I just did launches. Like launches. The funny thing is again, because I actually came into the l c s, the life coach school world. Second, I sort of started in the online in the Amy Porterfield because I started with like marketing podcasts. I had only like really thought that you're supposed to launch and it's supposed to be like these courses and it's supposed to be groups. And I sort of wish I knew that it could have been one-on-one. Like I wish I knew I didn't need to start with launching. I didn't really understand that so mm-hmm I was like, well this is what people do. They start, they do a webinar, they do a challenge and then they open the doors and then you get people in and you do a pre-enrollment and I just like followed what people were telling me to do on like podcasts and it worked and I, I mean clearly and I, I was filling, I wasn't filling out my groups but I was getting like eight to 10 people when I was doing 10. And then when I went to 20, I was getting like 15 to 18 people. So I was getting people signing up, I was getting people re-signing up and
Speaker 2 (00:51:17):
Then, and what was the price in 2020 for these
Speaker 1 (00:51:19):
Groups? In 2020? I was doing like a three month program and I believe 1500 at the time. And then it went up to 2000. I think it was 2000 for three months.
Speaker 2 (00:51:31):
So how did you go in your brain from 450? Yeah, because that's what it was in the beginning for three months to 2000.
Speaker 1 (00:51:41):
Again I think it was just like you get influenced by what other people are charging and what you see in the industry and what other people were like. And I would take a program and I was like, they're charging this for two like $2,000 and like I'm giving so much more. And then I would see the results that people were getting and I would sort of see like, okay, what's it gonna be worth for me to do this? Like in the sense of like wanting to spend these three months or like getting them the results. And so I sort of just decided, I was like, let's just see if I raise it, will people pay it? Can I deliver on that? Are people gonna be happy with 2000? I always in the back of my mind, like I always have the thought, well the worst thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna refund their money.
Speaker 1 (00:52:21):
Like I'll keep their money right now and see like if I can't deliver on this, then I'll give them back their money. Like, cause I had to sort of have kind of that crutch to be like, I don't wanna scam people. I'm not trying to like, you know, if I, if I felt like I don't know what I'm doing and stuff, I would sort of calm myself down. Cause I knew I did and I knew they would get results and I knew I could help them. And so I think I just went to 1500 only because I was like really just seeing what other people were charging and that was even less than other, most people were charging 3000, 4,000. I was like, I, I can feel good about this. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (00:52:50):
, I have to say 20 19, 20 20. It sounds like you're pretty drama free in your mind. Nope. Nope. Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:53:00):
Speaker 1 (00:53:02):
Ever be drama free in entrepreneurship? To be honest, I don't think there's a level even now with all of the mindset work that I've done, I'm like a master certified coach. I'm obviously very, I'm much better at getting myself out of like spirals and I'm much better at spotting where my thinking is wrong and I'm much better at seeing the stories I'm creating and I still have a lot of drama and I still go to like, I should be bigger by now. Why is, is this per, you know, like a parent despair? It's like I just think that's like the human brain, you know? And I can get myself out of it and I can catch myself and kind of have that compassion now. But I don't think there was a time where I am like, you know what, I have no drama, this is just all fabulous. I feel like it's like at least once a month I'm like I should just shut this whole thing down , she just end close this business, this is too hard, this is too much. And then I just walk myself back from that ledge.
Speaker 2 (00:53:50):
Where do you think that like I should just stop, this is too hard. What do you think that was coming from? Was it just fear of people being unhappy?
Speaker 1 (00:54:01):
Yeah, for me the biggest growth and the hardest part is marketing and sales is, is being like putting myself out there is being on social media constantly. So I feel like my tantrums are always with that and when it comes to like selling and like doing a launch and I feel like when I feel almost depleted from having to show up so much to sell, like I love the coaching part, I love the delivery. I could do that all day long, but it's like the selling that I've had to really get my mind wrapped around and like, and it's been good it, it's changed my self-concept. It's helped me like really take up space and be seen. But it is where I have the most resistance so it causes the, like it requires the most energy for me. And so there's just times, especially when I'm like coming out of a launch that I'm like why am I doing this?
Speaker 1 (00:54:45):
This is too hard. Couldn't I just have a business that doesn't have my face on it? Like couldn't I just try something else? You know? But, and I mean in the end like I love doing it so much that I'm like, no, like this is what we're doing but I, I just have my tantrums or I'm like I don't wanna be on social media anymore. I don't wanna be on Instagram anymore. And so that's really where the work is for me. I feel like the rest of it, some people have it with like their coaching or delivery and like fear of not getting results. I don't have that as much. I feel like I'm really solid in the fact that I'm a good coach and I know I can get people results and I know I can help them change their mindset. Mine is just like, oh my god do I have to sell again , I can't believe I have to keep doing this
Speaker 2 (00:55:21):
. Okay. Well it sounds like the selling was going well, like 15, 18 people when your goal was 20 and this is 2020 maybe going into 2021. So then what happened?
Speaker 1 (00:55:35):
I mean honestly I've just taken it from there. 2021 I ended up making 193,000, 192,000. So I more than doubled and wow I did, I raised my prices I need, I saw that people needed more time, like people weren't ready to not get like with the coaching. So I made it a six month program but it was still $4,000 for the six months more.
Speaker 2 (00:55:56):
You doubled the time and the price.
Speaker 1 (00:55:58):
Speaker 2 (00:55:59):
So okay. Very straightforward. In my mind it
Speaker 1 (00:56:01):
Was exactly, it was more of like some people were re-upping after the three months but it was like selling them on that was just too, you know, I was like let's just eliminate that and like you need six months and it's gonna be 4,000 if you wanna do it. So I did that and I launched more so that like is why I ended up making more, it was the same program, it was just a longer timeframe so they had more time to go through the materials and get coaching. Wait,
Speaker 2 (00:56:23):
So how did you launch more if the timeframe was shorter?
Speaker 1 (00:56:27):
I overlapped. So like before in 2020 I realized like I was only launching because it was three months. I could wait till it ended and then I would do another launch and I would launch like maybe three times or something like that. And then I was like, oh I don't have to wait cause I'm coaching once a week. I could have two simultaneous groups especially cuz it was six months. So I was like I'm not gonna wait till the end of the six months. So I was launching more often and just having concurrent groups running, like they were still separate. They would get their calls on different nights or times but um, I was running like more groups I think like a grand like four groups at that year.
Speaker 2 (00:57:00):
Okay, all right, got it. So
Speaker 1 (00:57:01):
Then it's just been like that. So it was, yeah in 2021 I just redid those, that same program as six months and I grew to about 193,000, something like that. And then in 2022 I did 215,000 for the first six months I did that same program. So I launched it twice, two more, two more times I stopped doing that program for now I, I don't know if it's gone but like I, that was gonna be my last launch and then I launched a membership in September so I launched the quitter club and I kind of sort of changed the whole container and how I kind of deliver it and yeah I made 215 last year.
Speaker 2 (00:57:41):
And the last launch of your group program was also your best, correct?
Speaker 1 (00:57:46):
Yeah, yeah I think that's also because it was gonna be my last like you have kind of that scarcity where like I was telling them like listen, if you've been waiting to do this, it's now or like I don't know when it will come back. I don't know if it will come back. If you want a small group setting and you want to work with me like you know, every week for six months this is your last opportunity for at least a year, likely longer. So I think that obviously did help boost, but yeah I did I think 80 k in that launch. Alright,
Speaker 2 (00:58:12):
Well tell me about why you decided to kind of change your main container and go to membership.
Speaker 1 (00:58:18):
Yeah, that's great question. I think it was a lot of reasons. What was funny is again, you sort of do things because you see what other people do and obviously there's good business advice, right? Like I can understand why business coaches advise on certain things. Again, like I do think it's easier to start with one-on-one. Had I known that's what you were supposed to do at the time I would have done that. I didn't. Um, I do think it's easier to sell a high-end ticket group than it is a membership. So I can understand why like when you don't have the audience, a membership is very difficult to sell. But I also started realizing, like even when I started back when I was telling you I started the podcast and I was thinking about getting advertisements, one of the other things I was thinking about was like maybe I could start a community, maybe I could have had people, you know, I was thinking about like Patreon model like $10 a month and I kept really thinking about creating a community of, there's so many people that are unhappy at work where like people have kind of the support of each other.
Speaker 1 (00:59:09):
And I felt like when I was sitting and thinking about it, I'm like, it's funny like I'm doing this group program in the hopes of getting to a place where I could do a membership. Like I, it's almost like I have to earn it. Like I have to, like someone has to tell me, okay, now you're allowed to to do a membership, you know? And I was like, I'm constantly working on building this to be like okay, I have enough demand to do a membership but I'm like, but what I wanna do as a membership model, like I wanted it even after the six months people weren't quote unquote ready in the sense to be like completely without coaching. I think now that you are releasing the power of like mindset coaching, it's something that's like ongoing. It's something that you constantly need because your brain doesn't shut up.
Speaker 1 (00:59:45):
So it's like you constantly need someone to help you see where you're having this faulty thinking. And I was realizing for people, like for myself when I wanted to quit law, it didn't happen in six months. It wasn't like my thoughts were all clear and I was ready to go and I was like not lost and I knew exactly what I wanted to do. Like a lot of this tough for some people, some people it happens very quickly, they make a decision, they quit, they like are onto the next thing and for some people it takes a year or two years and I wanted them to like have a place where they can just stay and be able to come back and get as much coaching as they need and like sometimes be more active and sometimes be less active. Truth be told, I also wanted it to be more affordable. I know that like there's all this like talk in the coaching industry about like being resourceful and you know, and I get that like people have spend the money on all these other things and they, if they, you know, whatever. But at the end of the day
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I was like, no, no, no not whatever. Can you actually flush that out because I know what you mean but the whole like be resourceful thing. Yeah. That is something I've only recently encountered. So what is it when somebody says be resourceful, what are they?
Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
I just think that like you get a lot of advice from people that are selling coaching, which I'm not saying it's all bad or wrong obviously like I have found ways to pay for coaching and it's very much like I understand that when you invest in yourself, when you put up the money, you have skin in the game, you show up more, you get better results. All of that is true. But I think that thing that I don't like in the coaching industry is like if you believed in yourself, you would invest in yourself. If you were resourceful enough you would figure out a way to make the money if you were, you know, all these things. And yes and there are economic circumstances for some people that like they may not ha be able to be that resourceful or maybe they're not even in the mindset to be able to be that resourceful.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
And while I do work with a lot of high earners, like I do work with doctors and lawyers who likely can spend the $4,000, I also work with a lot of teachers and I work with people that are making, you know, $30,000 a year or whatnot. And so, and I'm not saying like my membership is 1 97 a month, it's $200 a month. So it's not cheap. It's not like it's like, you know, for some people $200 a month is more than they can afford in their monthly budget. So it's not to say that it's like now everybody can afford it. And I understand that and that's something that like I've had to grapple with is like it's not all or nothing. It didn't feel in alignment with the, what my values were to keep trying to sell people into a $4,000 every six months and when I knew they would need continued help mm-hmm to be like well you can just come up with the 4,000 if you want coaching and you can keep giving me $4,000 every six months to continue this for two years.
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
I just didn't like that model. Like it didn't feel good for me to sell it. And so I wanted something where especially a lot of people that come to me are where I was like very lost and very in the beginning of their personal development journey. And so for a lot of us that have done personal development and we see the transformation, like paying for coaching is a no-brainer for me now, but I remember the first time I saw a program that was like $5,000, I nearly fell out of my chair. I was like, wait, what you're charging how much for this class? Like it was just so mind-blowing to me. And I know a lot of people that are coming to me are kind of in that space. And so what I wanted was a intro level kind of like foundational program that I had that I was like you could come for as long as you want.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
It's something that is accessible more than my other coaching program and I likely will do higher end programs for people that have done the membership and have learned to master their mind to a certain extent and maybe want help with like actually quitting and building that business. I don't know what I'm gonna do later, but I was like, I don't, I want there to be some foundational place they can go to really learn how to manage their mind and do it at their own pace and not feel like so many of my clients I felt like felt rushed because the time was ending. It was like, oh no, no, I, I'm still behind, I still haven't like I'm still a people pleaser. And I'm like, yeah I know you're going to be, you know like that's not gonna just change overnight. And so that was really like the impetus for it.
Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I was like, this just feels better to me and the only reason I'm not doing it is because everyone's telling me like it's not smart to do a membership. Which I understand from a business perspective, like if the bottom line was my only concern, then yes it would make more sense for me to do a higher end thing. If my only concern was scaling to like how much money I can make then a membership doesn't make sense but that's not my only concern and that's not what my focus was. So I sorta just had to give myself permission to be like, just do the thing you wanna do and see if it works. Like I feel like that's what I've done up until now and it's been fine and so we're experimenting with this and we'll see how it
Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Goes. I really, really love that. I mean you have listened to me say over the years how much I dislike membership. So that must have been fun . But tell us about the initial launch.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
So when I made the decision to transition, I sort of seeded it with my audience, like I was gonna announce something new and then in August, September I basically told them like, listen, I'm doing a new membership and I did like a founding member's launch. So right now the way that the membership is is it's a monthly or a yearly. So you could do 1 97 per month or 1997, like 2000 for the whole year. But for the founding members I had decided that they would get 50% off but only yearly. So they couldn't do it monthly for the founding members the, it was gonna be 9 97 like a thousand dollars for the whole year. And I really wanted people that were like committed to staying in and like building the community mostly for myself cause I hadn't set up the membership and so I'd never dealt with people canceling in the middle.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Like I'd only had group programs where everyone starts at the same time and ends at the same time and you only pay one time or I mean I had payment plans but it's just like it wasn't churn and like how do do you retain people? I didn't have any of that stuff to worry. So I really wanted to make it both like who are the people that are gonna be really invested and how can I give myself some runway to figure out all this stuff? Like to figure out the churn and figure out how do I deal with cancellations and how do I do that. I don't have like a team, I had a VA at the time so I tried to make it easy on myself and I'm really glad I did cuz it really worked out well. So I launched in September and I think I got something like 75 people in my family. Holy
Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I love your reaction. It makes me feel so much better about my business than I
Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Did . Holy. 75 people in for a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Oh my god. , I'm like, I wanna know how many people did solve the sales page and blah blah blah and what was the conversion rate? And and but we don't have, we don't have to do that. Well this is block. Well I
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Don't know any of that. That's the thing, right? This is like where, you know, I think we were talking about this when I chatted with you before the podcast. If anyone's listening and you feel like you don't know quote unquote the right way or all the numbers and all the metrics, I'm just learning all that stuff too. And so like you don't need all that. I mean it's nice and I'm like oh I should know what are my conversion rates? How many people are seeing this? But yeah, it's things that I don, I wouldn't even be able to tell you those numbers if you wanted them Claire.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
I mean I knew what at a time like when what my conversion rate was for the last launch. I don't know it now. Yeah, I mean I'm not like reviewing all my numbers. No
Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
I think it's a good thing. I should know it. I'm not like, this isn't like oh I'm doing, it's just like one of the guiding principles that has allowed me to stay in business is like how can I make it easy and like I don't, you know, all that stuff to be honest. Not like it freaks me out but I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how I would change what I spend the time making my sales page better. Probably not. So like why am I right, not right now, you know? Mm-hmm like I don't have the bandwidth. So yeah, I'm like let me focus on what I can focus on and deliver to the people that I can deliver and see what happens. And then hopefully as I grow this, then learn all that stuff and get other people on the team and get people to help me like optimize and convert better and all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
And that's totally fine. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. I think what the question of like how many people saw your sales page, that stuff is really important when somebody is very disappointed with their launch because then when you can say, well it's cuz you'll only had like 30 people view it and you were hoping for 20 people to join and that, you know like Yeah. Things like that.
Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Totally. And I do think now with like the membership model and me wanting to launch a lot more and I'm very quickly realizing that that information is much more important and handy. Like to have, I think I just was blissfully not, I don't wanna say ignorant, I just didn't worry about it as much when I was doing the group program and I realized with this founder's launch it was great, but I am running into that. Like now when I'm doing monthly members I wanna know it. I'm like wait, how many people is this a good conversion rate? Was this mm-hmm because you know, I mean your brain wants to constantly tell you that like everything is the worst. And I'm like, I don't, don't know what I'm doing and I'm failing at this. And I'm like, is that true? So now I'm getting much more in the weeds of like what was the conversion rate and how many people saw this and how do I drive more people to that page next time? Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Got it. Okay cool. So you have a 75 K launch mm-hmm which was like what? Just like 5K short from your best launch ever, which also happened that year, but for the
Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Group program. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
And I think like there was a couple things that happened to be honest, like I think was made it really successful as a launch was I had run the group program for a couple of years now and I had a lot of like alumni, like people that loved my program that wanted to continue on but didn't really wanna spend $4,000 again or like didn't necessarily know if they needed to do the same program over again. Mm-hmm . So I had people that kept asking me like, can you do something for your alumni? Can you put a group together? You know? And I knew there was gonna be a lot of people that had worked with me that who were already bought in. Like they already knew that this mindset stuff changes their lives and they wanted to do more of it. So I had that, I had like a price anchor, like I had only sold something that was $4,000 up until that point.
Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
And so I think there was a lot of people on my list that had wanted to really love the podcast, really loved the mindset work but just couldn't afford or didn't wanna spend that much. So I think when I offered the thousand dollars it was like, okay, that's something I can do. And I had been doing by the way, like for two years I had done um, free coaching call once a month mm-hmm . So I just like had to be able to come up and ask whatever questions they needed about their careers and I would coach them. So I had regular people come to that but like not by the program, you know, whether for financial reasons or whatnot. And so I think there was a lot of people that were waiting for a price point that they could buy in on, especially cuz there was also like they knew the price was gonna go up and so it's like if you wanna get in on it, it's gonna be I think came out to what, $83 a month to be in this program and you get all this coaching and you get all this course and I put the same exact course that was in my program into the membership and I'm, I don't have it any type of like you have to be in for a certain, like I don't drip it or it's like you have to be in for three months to get access to this part of it or anything.
Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
I was like, you come, it's all there and you can come to all the coaching and you get all this other stuff. So I think that's what made it a really successful launch was it was just a lot of people that were kind of primed that wanted to buy something for me and then I offered something that was more affordable and I think that they knew that the price was going up. So I think that really helped. Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Yeah, there's a couple factors in there. Yeah. But like, let's just take a second and say you have this podcast with a super engaged audience, you have a huge Instagram following, there's also the explanation that you are badass and people have been dying to work with you and this was a really, really exciting offer that you were very smart to put together.
Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I, yeah, and I'm not saying like I, I think that people saw the value of my, the work that I had been doing for years, like putting out there and wanted to get in on it, which was awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Mm-hmm . Okay cool. So then what was it like serving those people? I mean what did you have ready for them at the time?
Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
So, and then one of the smarter things I did too was I, I can't remember the exact dates, but I basically launched about a month before I actually launched the membership. So I did the sale and I was like, listen, I'm building this out. It's gonna be this, this is gonna be the membership but it will start like October 1st. I think I sold in the beginning of September. Oh. So I finished the launch and I knew there was going to be like 75 people in there. And again I had a lot of my content from my group program. So I hired somebody, she does my website and she just helped me kind of put it together in a membership. I think I bought, we bought like a membership template from one of these template stores and then in Cajabi and then she helped me just like basically migrate things over and make it look like a membership.
Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
And then the community's on circle, which is just another software that does kind of community aspect. We kind of put these things together. Yeah. And then we opened, you know, in October and oh again, that's also so a way that I, not that I sold it, but I was like, listen, I'm giving this founding members discount because I'm also gonna be building this so there's gonna be some hiccups. So like if you don't like that then it's probably not for you, but like this isn't gonna be perfect and I want people that are invested in like building it with me. I mean for the most part it went really smoothly. So it's not that there was, there was a couple hiccups here and there and then I just sort of built it as I went. We had the community, we started like people started getting really engaged in the community from the beginning. We do weekly calls and then there's the portal and then I do a monthly masterclass and then that goes into the portal as like a in the library of classes. So on a different topic. That's sort of how we built
Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
It. Fabulous. Okay. So that was beginning of September when you did that launch, did you launch again that year? Okay,
Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
So here's where it is. Like that was a great launch and then afterwards, not that it hasn't been good, a couple of things happened. I hadn't planned, I didn't know when I was gonna open up to the monthly member launch, like when I was gonna do my first one in the interim. In that time in October, November in Iran there was the start of this revolution led by women. I'm Iranian American. I got very heavily involved just mentally in that. And so I sort of stopped posting, not that I stopped selling, I was doing my podcast but it just didn't feel right. Like my head was very much like all of November was really concerned with what was going on in Iran and with my family and, and what was happening there. So it was like we already got into the holiday season and I, I didn't really plan a launch in that kind of like a big type of launch.
Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
I did end up opening it, like looking back now, I don't know, it wasn't probably the way I would've done it now and again because I don't know my number so I can't tell you like was it a good launch or a bad launch. But I think like a lot of other people in my audience, I didn't educate them enough on what the membership was. So I kind of opened doors and I did it for like five days or like seven days or something. But I hadn't really been talking about what was happening in the membership and I wasn't really giving testimonials and I wasn't really explaining like the difference between the membership. Cause I know a lot of people later ended up having questions about like where the group program was and things like that. So I did end up launching it. I, I got like I think 19 people in that, like it was a monthly members for that month. And then I ended that at the beginning of December. And then I just recently also did just like a not small launch, but I just didn't, I didn't do like a launch event or anything. I didn't do a webinar. I opened doors again at the end of January and I got I think 12 or 14 people this last month. So just like sort of, I haven't done the typical like a three day challenge or big webinar that opens up into the membership yet.
Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
But correct me if I'm wrong, my calculations are based on the assumption that everyone took you up on the monthly plan. Yeah, that sounds like it's about six K or more of recurring monthly revenue. That's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I know this is the thing is like, again, it's funny cuz I teach on mindset and I'm like, it's funny how my brain, you get sort of used to certain numbers, you hear these launch numbers from other people, you hear these, you know, even for me there's sort of this like entitlement a little bit sometimes. Like the success entitlement, like when I did the founding members and I had 75 people, I don't know why. I just expected that when I do a monthly, you know, this is like the cheapest price point I'm gonna have offered. I thought it would be like another 50 to a hundred people. Mm-hmm , I just, I have no idea where I pulled that number out of. I just was like, hmm, that sounds about right. And then so then when it doesn't happen it's like you just start thinking like, well this was a fail or I didn't do it right.
Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
Where no, it is really good. And I think that there is still, I'm in this place where I'm still educating my audience on like what is this membership and who needs a membership? And I think people still have, you know, I know for a lot of us, even myself, like sometimes you're reluctant with like a recurring model and it's like, well even if you think about it like, okay for the year it's 2000 let's say or 2,400 people don't want something cause like you forget about it or whatnot. So I know there's a lot of work to be done and when I looked back and I actually for the first time went and looked at like the numbers in January, I went back and I was looking at the December launch and I was like, why did I tell myself that that wasn't a successful launch?
Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
So it's definitely just like, well I thought I should have had more so I'm just gonna think that this isn't what it should have been. But for the most part now I'm, I'm super happy for it and I, and I really think that one of the reasons I was happy for this type of a launch where it's not a ton of peoples, I'm also still really setting up all the automations of like what happens when people launch and then they cancel and like how do you take them off the private podcast and how do you take them out of the community and how do you do all this stuff? Cuz it's not like everyone starts at the same time and everyone ends at the same time. It's, you know, still kind of building it on the back end. And so it's been nice to kind of be able to iron out, you know, whatever kinks we have and then take it from there.
Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I have to say that that one thing that you said, the private podcast feed, how do you set it up so that it's not ongoing? It that, that's the one thing I know there's a way I just haven't sat down to learn it.
Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
What's funny is like I didn't either and I was like so scared of all of these moving parts, but with Zapier now, there are a lot of ways to kind of do it and so many other people have figured it out. So it's like just, just learning from them. You know, there is the pain of setting it up, but I feel like once you can set it up, it can all pretty much be automated. I mean, I'll let you know once I figure it out and then mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
hopefully. Sounds good. Okay. So what I noticed in your last launch in your January launch was that you were promoting a masterclass. Yes. But the masterclass was not a free masterclass to promote the membership. Right. It was something inside and what was the topic?
Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
How to follow through? So what I was doing was, and this is what I was saying again, like I was just asking myself, how do I make this easy? Because you know, it was the holidays we got pushed into January, I was going away for a mastermind, I was making some bigger decisions about the business. So I was hesitant to like plan a big launch, but I didn't want January to go away without me like allowing some people to come in. And so I was asking like just myself, like how do I just make this easy? And one of the things that I do, like I said is every month we do a topic or a theme. And I'd already planned that January we were gonna do goal setting and scheduling in the membership. And then February we were gonna focus on how to follow through.
Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
So in January we had done goal setting scheduling, but like, you know, there's all these classes on how to set goals, but we all know what happens. Like you do it for a couple weeks and then you stop. And the real issue is like how do you follow through for the whole year? And so I know that this is like one of the main things that a lot of people in my program, just a lot of people suffer from like about not falling through and procrastinating and then all the shame and stuff that comes along with that. So it was like a skill that I think a lot of people need to learn. So I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna market to this class. Like if you've been wanting to join the quitter club and you wanna learn how to follow through, then like this is the month to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Like this is what we're gonna be working on all month. Like we're doing a 30 day challenge of following through. And I was gonna do like a really in-depth masterclass of like why you don't follow through what's happening when you're not following through how it's normal and how to start like really understanding how to get yourself to do the things maybe you don't wanna do. And so yeah, I just basically marketed to that and was like, listen, it's worth 1 97 to just go to the class and get the workbook mm-hmm. and you get 30 days, you know, you get the whole month in the quitter club and you can check it out and see if you wanna stick around or not. So that's sort of how I marketed the last launch.
Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Cool. Yeah. So while you were explaining that I had this thought which was like, hmm, what could we do for ads with that? Because that's a super compelling topic. I think especially this time of year, like, you know, February is very close obviously to the beginning of the year and so, you know, but like what could it be because it's part of your paid offer. Can we brainstorm this for a second? Is that okay? We love that. My like first job where I really learned Facebook ads, she sold a membership. Mm-hmm and there would be a webinar on, you know, a free webinar and then on the thank you for registering page there would be an offer. And so now this doesn't really make sense for your particular business model, but she would try like a free trial. Yeah. Or sorry, a dollar a dollar trial, but a dollar trial and her thing was $99 a month, a dollar trial for 1 99 or 1 97. That's a lot. That's a big jump. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
But what if the trial were like, you know, get this class for $45. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
And I think I've seen a lot of people do that. Yeah. Whereas like much cheaper masterclass, like a $25 or $50 masterclass and then when you're on the class, like that money will go towards your month. So like if you like this and you wanna join mm-hmm. , like we'll take the $50 off of your 1 97 so you only have to pay like 1 47 for the first month To do it for the month. So I, it's something that I've seen some other people with memberships do. I definitely think it could work. I mean I'd be open to trying it. I didn't do it obviously for this one, but I think that I have thought about how could I market this in other ways. I think some other ways people have done it is just doing the masterclass for free. Like you can come to this masterclass like this time we will do it for anybody and then pitch them on the membership on the back end of that.
Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
All of those are possibilities I, I've given myself this year to just like experiment with like how do I sell this membership and try a bunch of different things and see what resonates with people or what gets people to kind of act. So I'm definitely open to, especially trying the cheaper kind of $25 or $50 masterclass and seeing if that works. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I'm also worried, and we're doing this right after I've done that launch. So, you know, I'm also interested in seeing the metrics of like how many people just come for that month and then cancel. Right? Right. Where it's like they're coming because of that masterclass. So they'll buy it, but then they don't really wanna be in a membership. Right. And so, you know, it's like not all leads are the same. So is it gonna be, do I even wanna market in that way versus marketing people with the idea of like, you should be in here working on your mindset. Like it's not gonna happen in 30 days. Like the whole point. Mm-hmm. is to kinda continue on with this.
Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Right. The thing is though, I would think that somebody who comes into a membership knowing that that's the offer, it's a membership. You're paying 1 97 a month and they're also like coming in in a timely way so they can watch this particular masterclass and maybe participate in that challenge. Right. I gotta say I think that's a higher quality lead than somebody who just buys a $40 masterclass.
Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Sure. Definitely a higher quality lead in that sense. But I'm just saying in the sense of like, are you talking to the person who wants to come and be a part of, let's say like this is a journey of learning how to manage your mind that's going to take a couple of months. It's not gonna happen in 30 days and you're gonna come, maybe you get less people in, but you get people that, like if you're selling them into the idea that you should come in with the expectation of staying mm-hmm versus are you selling people into, like part of what I was thinking when I was selling is am I selling them into like, you should come get this masterclass, it's worth the 1 97 and it's like, okay, maybe I sell some people into that, but then that's what they're coming for. Mm-hmm. . So then they're gonna cancel after that month cuz that's what they wanted. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
I see what you mean.
Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Which is not, it's also fine. Right. If that's all they wanted, that's okay. And you know, they get that month, but who am I really talking to?
Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I'm not the best person to talk to about growing a membership because I've never done it. But I also have this thought, what if there was an opt-in and like the opt-in is three coaching calls not live like the replay of coaching calls.
Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
I mean obviously you have to position it as some kind, like this is what we, we focus on questions around this topic. Right. So maybe it does have to be some editing together or like related to follow through because I think your cost per lead would be high, but it could be like they get in that and they're like, I want this more than I want. Like, you know, content, you
Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Know? Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting that you say that because one of the things that I have been thinking about, and I've been thinking about it more as like a freebie, which I mean maybe this is the freebie, is of doing a private podcast for a freebie, right. Where it's like a limited series of like, I don't know how many episodes related to a topic that we cover in the membership. Right. But one of the things that you're saying that's really fascinating to me is because part of what I try to talk to my people about is like a lot of my people are perfectionists, high achievers. They wanna come in and do all the things and there's just, it's like I liken it to go into a buffet. Like you don't go to a buffet to eat everything. And so there are tons of classes in the membership.
Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
The point is not to come and do it all. The point is to come and see like what do I need and work on that. And one of the things that we've talked a lot about is like, in my opinion, honestly I think if you just listen to the private podcast feed of the coaching call replays, it's worth more than the investment that you make because mm, you will slowly start changing how you think by just listening to other people be coached. Cuz you have the same exact thought. So for so many people, they're so busy. It's like on your commute to work, you know as you're washing the dishes or what, when you go on your walk, can you listen to a coaching call replay and just start having it kind of plant those seeds. And so the reason I say it's really interesting is like, and now I'm thinking like maybe what if my freebie was just a private podcast feed with a couple of the coaching calls or coaching calls around a certain topic just so they get an understanding of like what is it like to be in this membership and to constantly listen to these types of conversations and listen to this type of coaching.
Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Like could that be enough to get them interested in wanting to be a part of the membership? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Because here's the thing, if you do a private podcast as an opt-in, it might be about a certain series but they can get more of that from just your public podcast. Mm-hmm. . But if they get hooked on listening to these coaching calls,
Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
In order to get more of that they have to join.
Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
I mean let's be honest here, I paid $18,000 pay in full to Brooke Castillo for certification. Mm-hmm not because I want to get certified, but because someday I want Brooke to coach me on my business. I want Brooke to coach me. Period. And I don't know, maybe there's like some way to do that in scholars. Like I didn't really understand but I knew that the people who get these special offers, you know, for like her events or mastermind or whatever they are, her coaches mm-hmm . So I paid that money just to get in the room with her more often. I mean your skills as a podcaster are fantastic but they are different from coaching. Yeah. So if they can get a taste of your coaching, this is also why I'm really curious if I were to ask you to dig into these numbers and we can obviously talk about it on Voxer, but like of the people who have joined the membership, how many of them attended like two or more of your free coaching calls?
Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
That's such a good question. I should definitely dig into those numbers. It is a lot. Like, the thing is is that what's fascinating is of the people that have joined, definitely over 50% are people that I've a, were previous clients that were in other programs or be, were regulars on my free coaching goals.
Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
Hmm. Regulars. Yeah. Yeah. So it's about positioning that. Yeah. And I find that sometimes the positioning of like a not sexy lead magnet is hard. Yeah. But they can be the most valuable. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Exactly. Well that's, that's sort of what I've been trying to think about and this is what I was saying is even when I did this launch is I don't think the point is to get as many leads as possible. I know that that sort of becomes the name of the game in online business. But I, I do think it's like what are the quality of leads? Like what you're saying is the reason I like this is yeah it might not be the sexiest lead magnet, but it does give them the best taste of what they can gain from being in the membership. Mm-hmm . And so maybe you get less leads on the front end but you maybe convert better or you get more people that are gonna come and stay in and really buy into what the power of that membership is. Mm-hmm as opposed to yeah maybe you get a ton of people coming in because you have some like super sexy, you know, title and it sounds great but then it's like well I don't want this or I don't wanna be in a membership or I don't think coaching works or whatever the thought is.
Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
I've definitely been trying to think about like more getting my own brain on board of like even when you were saying like having like bigger audiences, like all those vanity metrics are fine, you can grow your own social media but like does that actually convert into people that are buying your products? Mm. So I like this idea a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
You could easily promote it on your podcast because your podcast listeners will love more of you. And in this the exact same format.
Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
I love this so much. I'm so excited about this actually it's like on the wheels turning cause I'm like the vast majority of people that join are my pod people that actually listen to podcasts. So people mm-hmm I already know are listening to podcasts will likely use that medium more. And I've been thinking of like what's a low lift thing that I can do like that I'm already doing. I don't need to keep creating, I can just use something that I've already, oh my god I love this idea. Oh
Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
My gosh this coaching , that's fine. This is just me marketing, get paid marketing cuz this is what I do on the calls. I come up with these things sold and actually I'm now thinking that in our like not as an opt-in but just in our sales process or in our marketing rather literally just like linking to a replay of a coaching call so long as I have Oh yeah. Consent from everyone. You know, like you could just edit out people's names or maybe you wouldn't have them Right. But maybe it's just like, you know Rachel. Yeah. And and also sending people, this is just to give people more examples of like what they could do. Yeah. Including one of Sarah Lucille's critiques in a sales email. So people see what I'm talking about when I'm like, she goes in depth. These are things I've sort of thought about before but not really. I don't think I really gave it much thought but this is brilliant. This is how we change marketing and this is how results happen is when you start doing things that people aren't doing yet and people opt in at a higher rate.
Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
Yeah. This is gold. Thank
Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
You. Yeah, no problem. I just love you so much. I can't wait for the testimonial on that idea. Okay. So then besides this idea, what else do you have planned or thought about for 2023?
Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Yeah, so I definitely will do some traditional launches. I actually, I feel like all of 2022 because the last three launches I did, I didn't do a quote unquote traditional. Like I didn't do a webinar to an open cart. And so it's been a very long time then since I've done that. And I was actually thinking when I first started and what was really working really well for me was challenges like three day challenges where people get kind of coaching and get a taste of like what they're gonna be working on. So I'm definitely gonna do a live challenge this year. I think I'm gonna do like a, I don't, five days is a little too much for me but I feel like three days I can do and I think people hang on. So I'll definitely do a three day challenge. I'll definitely do some webinars and like free masterclass that lead in just to sort of see like what gets people in more, what converts better.
Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
But now like, I mean all these ideas, like I have so many different things that I wanna try like what you just suggested, even like a masterclass that I have in the portal, like converting that into a free kind of like a freebie and seeing if that converts on the backend. Like doing not an evergreen but it's like you have a couple days after you watch this like signing up for this freebie to join. I think that's a little bit more like towards the second half of the year cause I don't wanna figure out how to do that yet, but mm-hmm , things like that. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
. Yeah. Okay, cool. Could you share just a little bit with the audience about your challenges? Like you mentioned that they get coaching, so how do you format your challenges so that people are getting coaching in you know, three or five days?
Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
It depends on what the topic is but like let's say if it's just overall what we're doing in the membership, like I'll figure out what are the steps that we go through in the membership and I'll pick a step for each day. So a challenge I did once is like, I don't know, finding your dream career or something. And like the first day is, I think it was like making a decision about where like making a short-term decision because so many people for instance, like so many people spin out for months and months about something that they already know the answer to. Like if you can't financially quit mm-hmm , why are you torturing yourself thinking about quitting right now? Like your short-term goal might be I have to be at this job for the next year while I save money. Like great, now we know that and we can focus our energy on saving money and managing our mind, being there and actually trying to like it and learning the things we need to learn and networking and doing all these other things instead of ruminating about how much we hate it and how much we wanna quit.
Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
So I think it was like the first day was like, we're just gonna make a decision today. We're gonna figure out can you quit in the next six months? Can you not? Are we gonna like revisit this in a year? And I feel like when you give 'em like a small, where it's like, oh you can come and stop all of this ruminating in one hour. The way I did my challenges is like I teach for 30 minutes and then I coach them on questions that come up. Mm-hmm. . And so then the second day when they would come back and then we'd teach, like we would still coach on things that came up the first day and I would coach them through. Cause someone would say like, well I have this issue and like, you know, we have enough saved but I'm scared about this.
Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
And so that they would see live coaching cuz I would just like coach them through whatever that fear was or whatever was stopping them. So many people wanna like believe like no, I can't make a decision. And then I'd be like sort of nudge them and by the end they'd be like, oh yeah, this is my decision. So it's things like that. Like I just find ways where you can like make some kind of definitive statement or you can really come up with a thought that's going to like serve you to kind of calm you down from the like overwhelm and the confusion that so many of us kind of indulge in all the time. And so I tructure it in that way so that they have something at the end of each day to like be like, oh I made progress. Cool.
Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
And then just for like the technical part, you're just doing all of this on Zoom?
Speaker 1 (01:33:27):
Yeah. I just have a like a PDF that they would get like a workbook and then it would just be a zoom call usually with like some slides, but I try not to, especially for like a challenge because it's like three days. It's not like I'm doing three hours of a masterclass or whatever. Right. So it would be like, I would try to teach for like 20 minutes on a topic or something and then we would do coaching and I would answer questions. Mm-hmm And we'd go through it, you know, and then the next day would be the same thing.
Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Got it. Okay. This is silly, but one of the projects that I worked on in my last job, which was now, you know, like almost nine years ago was uh, a five day free challenge but it was delivered as pre-recorded emails and then like maybe there was a Facebook group and then I remember somebody else doing something similar pre-recorded emails, but then there was like Instagram. So like honestly this thought of just like a challenge being on Zoom is may not, maybe that's what everyone does and I just didn't know that but I I needed the clarification. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I've seen it done a bunch of ways. Like some people do it live and it is just on Zoom and some people do mm-hmm , I've seen tons of like the email or even pre-recorded videos. So you get a video every day that walks you through whatever the assignment, it's like a 10 minute video. Mm-hmm and then you have like a Facebook group or something where you have like community. I just like being live.
Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Well the thing is the live thing enables the coaching. Mm-hmm much better than any of the other formats because they're right there. You can go back and forth and that's what coaching is, right? It's not like who should I target for this ad? And then I can just say on the screen like, oh okay, well this is your niche. Well then I'll just, yeah. That's more to more like instructional than coaching.
Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Totally. And I think like what you said too earlier about like the book Castillo thing is like, I think a lot of times people want access to you, right? Mm-hmm. , it's like, like if you're gonna, for instance, if you were gonna do a challenge and I knew it was gonna be live and like I might get my specific question about my Facebook ads answered. Like I'm much more likely to show up than if you send me three videos. Like I'm not as likely to open those and watch 'em. Or it's just like a, you know, you teaching me about ads, which is great, but like all the contents on YouTube, like all the content is out there. There's so much that I could learn, but I'm like, well I just wanna ask Claire this one question cuz I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. And I think that that's what a lot of people come to those challenges for is like really getting access to you.
Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
That's very smart. Let me ask you a question. This is a market research one. So you told me in my last absolute FBI's launch, you were like, listen, I'm pretty sure I'm never ever, ever gonna wanna do this myself. And that's fine, I get that all the time. And I loved how upfront you were and I also loved that you bought anyway . Cause I made it make sense. What is the thought behind that that like, I'm never gonna wanna do this myself.
Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
Obviously it's like just my thoughts about how hard it is, but not even hard. It's like constantly the tinkering with it or seeing what works and what doesn't and like troubleshooting. And I know that it makes sense for me to do that myself and I likely will. I was being very dramatic in my boxers. You . But I think that it's more of like, there's already so many things to think about in running a business. Mm-hmm. And I'm like taking on another one where there's like the underlying, maybe not like a panic, but the underlying like, ah, am I wasting this money? Do I not know what I'm doing? Is this even right? It was working but is it's not, it's like l I feel like at this point I'm just resistant to learning new. Like I've learned so much, I need to stop learning because it is hurting my brain. Mm-hmm. . And so I think that's why it was like, I just want someone else that knows this to come do this for me.
Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
You just wrote my sales page. Thank you so much. I think
Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
You're so welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
It's funny because only in the past year with me working on thought work because of you have, I realized that people have a thought error Yeah. About ads because like you are willing to try a bunch of things I know in your business and that includes, you know, creating funnels or webinars and like lots of complex things. Yeah. You've put together a membership
Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
And yet it's the ads. Yeah. That it's, it's almost like you can put it over here in this box and be like, no that box is unop. Openable cannot open that box. What's in there is too hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
Where do you think that thought comes from? Like that thing is too hard.
Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
I think it's just the unknown, right? I think we're scared of things like other things I've maybe learned and clearly money comes into it too. Even if, you know, you start realizing like it doesn't have to be like really high amounts and you can test with a lot less. And I actually was, one of the reasons I was even coming around to it was this idea. I'm like, I am spending so much time and effort like creating things or creating content like this might be so much easier to just run ads to something, you know? Mm-hmm. and not keep creating. But I think it's just unknown. Like everything that we're afraid of, it's like, well I don't know how to do that. And you hear about all these people, their horror stories of like how much money they wasted in Facebook ads. And that's even part of the problem of like hiring someone, right?
Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
It's not as though I feel like I feel so easy breezy about hiring. Cause I'm like, well what if this person doesn't know what they're doing? Or what if they're not good And I give all this money to them. I know tons of entrepreneurs who've tried with Facebook ad agencies and it didn't work out or you know, who knows what actually happened but they weren't happy. And so I feel like it just creates this like, yeah, like put it in a bo, I don't even wanna deal with it. It's just seems too complex. Like, do I do it myself? Do I hire someone? How do I figure out what works? Do I know if it's actually gonna work? Am I gonna even figure it out? And so, you know, when you get overwhelmed you just spare your head in the sand, which mm-hmm. is what I've done with Facebook ads up until now.
Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
It's all good. I think the day that this episode is airing, I'm hosting a live webinar about that particular thing, it's,
Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
Well then everybody should go, yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
I'm gonna be there. I'll, don't worry, I'll be using ads to let everyone know that it's happening, not posts on social. What a huge waste of time. . No actually time and energy.
Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
I think that's what, when you were, you said that on a podcast episode, right? When you were selling absolute FBI ads and which is why I think I bought cuz you were like talking about how you have no energy to like wanna show up on social media all the time. And I'm like, yeah, same. Why am I doing this? Why is she like, she's right. Could I just drive so much more traffic without me having to like do the whole song and dance of social
Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
Media? Mm-hmm. , there were two very like separate things, the one of which I'm gonna be teaching in this webinar, but really like, just how to let everyone in your audience know that there's this offer first that it's coming. This is what people aren't doing at all. Mm-hmm. is like, hey, this is coming and then it's here. Right? Instead of relying on Instagram to show your posts to 13% of your audience. And so you have to do so many of them. But anyway, don't worry about it , even if, even if you're listening after the 16th, we're definitely gonna be doing that one again or have it on evergreen. There will be other opportunities. So we'll, we'll put it in the show notes. Whatever you can sign up for at the time. Let me just ask you, what do you spend your money on?
Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
Question. Like, my expenses , I'm assuming what you're asking me.
Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
Well, no, actually I think, didn't we already talk about that? Your expenses? No. Okay, good. Sorry, then let's get into
Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
'em. So last year I made 215,000. So here's the thing about, about expenses, like my expenses just for the business, were around 30,000, 35,000 and then coaching on top of that. But I, not that I don't, I do add it in, but it's sort of like if I wasn't making that money I wouldn't, I likely wouldn't be spending it on coaching. So like I mm-hmm. spend a lot of times because I've done well in that year and I have that, you know, extra kind of income coming in. So I'm like, oh, I wanna do this mastermind program mm-hmm. or I wanna do, you know, this type of coaching or this program. So I ended up spend a, a substantial amount on coaching. So I feel like with coaching included then my expenses were around like 75,000. So it was, I don't like 30,000 for coaching and then like 35,000, maybe 40,000 of expenses, 30,000 of coaching. And so, um, I had one VA and I have my podcast editor and then that VA left at the end of the last year. So now I'm hiring another operations assistant who will be doing more and uh, a bit of a higher rate. So hopefully my expenses will be going up in that sense, but I have just more to do with the membership.
Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
Wait, so you said 70 k including the coaching, that's 68% profit margin that doesn't include what you pay yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
Speaker 2 (01:42:05):
But it's also not taxes. Yeah. So I just find it interesting that you've kind of felt like you had to explain that about the coaching.
Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
No, it's not that I had to explain it. I just think that a lot of times when people talk about their expenses and maybe they, they would spend it right no matter what. Right? Like, I love the fact that you do this podcast and you talk about not just revenue, but what people are bringing home because that, that is what matters. But I just know for me, like if I wasn't bringing home that much, like, like the expenses that I need to actually run my business are about 30,000 mm-hmm. 35,000. Right. So it's like I was making substantially less, I could still bring be bringing home a, a good amount of profit. Right. Got it. Um, whereas I think like, yeah, I end up kind of, especially at the end of last year, like I kind of wait till the end and I'm like, oh, I wanna do this program and I wanna do this program and I just buy things and I'm like, well I made you know, more than I was expecting or I made a healthy profit and I wanna do this program and I think it's gonna help me. And so I do it. So I feel like for me, like when I make those decisions, it's sort of dependent on how much profit I'm bringing in and like, it's not like I'm gonna spend this regardless, even if I'm kind of spending more than I'm making.
Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
Okay, cool. Mm-hmm. . Well still that's a really healthy, I'm just saying very healthy profit margin.
Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
Yeah. I think we had this conversation before and I, when you talk about online business, there's just so many things that people think is like normal or the thing they should do, myself included. And I think sometimes you get caught in the idea of scaling or you get caught in the idea of like always making it bigger or making it more, one of the things I grappled with when I was changing into a membership was like, I really like the way my business was. You know, I kept like questioning like, do I want a wanna go at like million dollar business? And not that of course I wanna make a million dollars, like, but that's not the whole calculation, right? It's like, do I want to increase my overhead and then have to lead a team and have Facebook, Facebook ads and have to, you know, have someone oversee that and it's like you create so many more moving parts and like what are you actually taking home at the end of that?
Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
Right? Like, I kept thinking like, if I go to a million, but I'm still taking home 150,000 or 200,000 let's say, is it worth it for me to put that much more effort in to do that? Versus like, I work 20 to 30 hours a week, I was taking home that kind of, you know, it was really kind of on my own terms and mm-hmm. a business that I really liked. Right? Like I, it was really comfortable. But I think you can get so quickly caught in this like online business of constant, like a numbers kind of comparison and wanting to hit the million dollar with the seven figure mark or to just scale. Like every year we need to scale, we just need to get bigger. And I've questioned it and I, it's funny I say that because I've now moved to a membership and it does require more kind of scaling, like growing constantly.
Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
But it's just something that's been fascinating to me and I've, I've always like really checked in as like, am I doing this just to kind of prove that I can have a bigger business or like, I don't know what I'm trying to prove to people versus like, this is a really healthy profit margin. I'm making really good money, I'm doing what I love, I work on my own kind of schedule and I don't have to add a lot more complexity to it if I don't want to. So I just think like for people listening that maybe are like, you know, starting their own online business or kind of in that beginning stages or even not if you're not in the beginning stages, it's just an interesting thing to consider. I like recently had somebody who is a million dollar online business owner and she was like telling, she was like, I want your business. And I'm like, yeah, I know I want my business too. Like it's pretty nice. Mm-hmm. It's really like non-complex and super straightforward and mm-hmm. doesn't require a ton of like outside moving parts. So anyways,
Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
But so then why are we afraid of outside moving parts and not afraid? Yeah. But like it's interesting because I was somebody that was like, I don't want to manage a team. Yeah. And now I have a very small team and they are fantastic and okay, I manage my ads and or like somebody who's currently on my team could I, I don't know there,
Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
It's not that there is a problem with it. Right. And I think then one of the decisions I made to kind of want to scale is really just being more intentional and thinking about it and realizing that like my growth comes from learning how to manage other people and not telling myself this story that I can't or that I can't delegate or I'm not good at this or whatnot. There's no right or wrong in any of this. I'm not saying that like one is better or one is worse. And I, I think you're right. I can create a simple business that can scale as well. I just think that like, I see a lot of people create more complexity of like hiring, you know, support coaches than a copywriter and someone to do the sales page and then Facebook adds people and they, you know, spend a ton of money and create a lot more unnecessary stress where maybe you do that kind of piece by piece, but do you really have to do that in the beginning? Like, can you have something more straightforward?
Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
Yeah, it is true. You know, just like more players, more moving parts. Like not, not even to mention the cost. Yeah. Yeah. I would really like to stop designing all of my sales pages. Like I'm so over that.
Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
You and me both. I mean, I would love if I could snap my fingers and have everyone else do all the things I, I don't wanna do, I would love that too. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. , like I would love to have a copywriter and have someone do my sales page, but I feel like it, there's also, maybe it's just the learning curve, but like finding someone, it, it brings on its own problems. I've found.
Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
It's so interesting talking with different people on this podcast because like everyone just has like a super different experience and that's why like when I find myself in the thinking of like, oh, well when I hit x, y, Z revenue goal I'll have x, Y, Z problem. I know that it will always be 50 50, which I initially learned about from you by the way. But I try not to assume now like what my problems are going to be. And I feel like luck really comes into it sometimes just like, I mean hire, the two support coaches that I have are just like friends of people or clients of people I know and like that's, you know, certainly not by writing the perfect job description Right. Or having the perfect hiring process. Right. Anyway, that's just me over here. No,
Speaker 1 (01:47:54):
I think that's a great way of looking at it and I'm, it's not to say like, you know, some things that are problems for other people won't be a problem for you and vice versa. And you know, I think that's a fantastic way of like not anticipating a problem when maybe there won't be there.
Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Yes. Like the way everyone is thinking about Facebook ads, anticipating a problem. I'm sorry, I'm just coming up with these Great, no, I love with these great webinar slides in my mind. Yes. Okay. Fabulous. So then tell me, finally, final question. What do you spend your personal money on or you and your family? Like where does your money go other than food and mortgage?
Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
Yeah. I love spending my money on experiences and convenience. Mm-hmm. . So anything that can make my life easier, I will spend money on. And that, this has not been always the case, but I've really been unlearning like delegation of things I don't like to do at home. So house cleaning and things like that all the way to like, you know, now just silly and not silly things but like my husband loves having clean cars and like we just have somebody come to the house now and wash our cars. Like didn't even really realize that was a thing. And so if I can make it easier for myself, I will try to find a way and do that. So I love spending money on ease. And then other than that is like experiences, like I love vacations, going to maybe concerts or going out with friends, having people over for parties. Like any anyways that we can create memories or create experiences, we tend to budget our money for
Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
That. Now You threw yourself a 40th birthday party.
Speaker 1 (01:49:26):
Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
Did. And it was so inspirational. So that's an experience and it was beautiful also from, from the looks of it. How did you spend on convenience for that party? Like, you didn't cook, did
Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
You? No, well that was the fanciest I've ever gotten. It was so amazing. We had a really fun and intimate, it's relatively intimate party with like my closest friends and family in our backyard. And I hired a chef, a personal chef that came to the house and she cooked everything. And not only that, I mean she was fantastic. She like did all kind of the prep and helped me with presentation and like printed out menus and made it gorgeous, like made it really beautiful. But she did everything like from appetizers to dessert and obviously the, the main course. So like we have parties more often now because I'm willing to cater and like, because before I would like not wanna do it cuz I'd have to do so much work to put on a party and I'm like mm-hmm. , even having people over at, and this is like again, comes from kind of my Iranian background.
Speaker 1 (01:50:24):
It's like my mom and my uh, mother-in-law and every woman I know is like fantastic cooks and they all constantly cook all the time and every party was like them cooking 17 meals. And I would find that I just wasn't inviting people over because I didn't wanna have to do the two days of like cooking. And I would, I had been doing that and then I was like, well why don't I just order food every time they come, I who cares? Right. And it, but it was this thing of like, no, you can't do it every time. Like you have to make home cook meals and it's just, you know, like finding those thoughts that ruin your life and changing them. And so I started just like, I will not cook for Freds that come over. I will order and it'll be pleasant and then I get to like actually enjoy them and be there and not be exhausted by the time they come. So we have people over and we order all the time and it's just like one of the ways that I happily spend my money to be able to like enjoy that party.
Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
I'm so glad you said that because I have done the exact same thing. It's both about food and cleaning mm-hmm. and like we have cleaners, but it's like the middle of the week and things like that. No, no, no, no. You just get the, you get the cleaners for an extra two hours or something the day of. They are wonderful and
Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
It's life changing to realize that you can do that and like you can just have somebody come and clean. I do the same thing where it's like, or like I remember the first time and I wouldn't do do this unless we have like a bigger party, but like having someone that comes and like serves drinks and then cleans up and does all that stuff and you're like, oh my God, I don't have to do that. And I don't have to lug all the ice and everything out from like the fridge outside and set it up and constantly make sure everybody has drinks and you can pay for everything, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
Yes. Being a host of a party is mm-hmm. hard and like every single time it'll be like my husband on the grill mm-hmm. and then I don't stop moving. Totally.
Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
And totally you don't know. And
Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
Yet I'm still not remembering to put out the plates when it's time. Like, like I'm still remembering this barbecue and it was terrific fun, but like, yeah, there just, there will be somebody Yeah. In the future taking care of people's drinks and Exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:52:23):
Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
Kinds of things. Okay, wonderful. Thank you for sharing that and, and helping to validate some of my own feelings. Goalie, where can people go to pay you money?
Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
You can go to Lessons from a Quitter basically anywhere. My website is lessons from a quitter.com and I have some free resources there or you can find me on Instagram, come and say hi at Lessons from a
Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
Quitter and the the podcast just hop right into your app now as you're listening, type in lessons from a quitter. Go listen. I love, I Doubt You Remember the episode number, but we can look it up the episode about you choosing to spend a month in Wyoming. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (01:53:01):
Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
Was just so good. I mean, all your episodes are fantastic, thank but thank you so much. I love that one. Thank
Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
You. You're the best.
Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
So good. I mean you really, you really address like all of the objections. Mm-hmm , I think because you had, you had to go through them yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:53:16):
Yeah. I mean listen, when you come over to my podcast is like, uh, actually one of the reasons that I think I resonate so much with you and I think maybe like why you resonate with me is like part of this whole thing is like being very just honest about our own struggles or our own thoughts, right? And I, I think like I don't come to this work to be like, I am enlightened and I have figured out how to live life. It's like I'm a hot mess with a ton of guilt and shame constantly and like all the mom stuff and all the, you know, immigrant stuff and all the whatever it is. And I'm trying to figure this out and I have figured out a bunch of things so I can help you with those. But I feel like as I talk about it, it's like with each thing, like when we were going to Wyoming, like I had to work through my own guilt about that and you know, is it the right movement?
Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Is it not? And should we spend this money and who are we to do this and whatever. And it's like I work through those thoughts and then I help people do the same thing and really figure out like where do those thoughts come from and why do I have 'em and do I wanna keep 'em? And so I think a lot of what I try to relate both in the membership and on the podcast is just like human experience is not an easy one and we're all doing the best we can and these are some tools that have helped me and they can help you too.
Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
I love that so much. Goalie, thank you for so much of your time, . I love that we got to talk about everything that I wanted to talk about. Go sign up for the Quitter Club people.
Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
Go to lessons for quitter.com/quitter Club. Hey, if you are looking for more in-depth help with your career, whether that's dealing with all of the stress, worry, and anxiety that's leading to burnout in your current career or figuring out what your dream career is and actually going after it, I want you to join me in the Quitter Club. It is where we quit what is no longer working like perfectionism, people pleasing imposter syndrome, and we start working on what does and we start taking action towards the career and the life that you actually want. We will take the concepts that we talk about on the podcast and apply them to your life and you will get the coaching tools and support that you need to actually make some real change. So go to lessons from a quitter.com/quitter club and get on the wait list. Doors are closed right now, but they will be open soon.