Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to Lessons from a Quitter where we believe that it is never too late to start over. No matter how much time or energy you spent getting to where you are. If ultimately you are unfulfilled, then it is time to get out. Join me each week for both inspiration and actionable tips so that we can get you on the road to your dreams. Hello my friends. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. I'm so excited because today I get to talk to one of my friends and former students, Betty Dow and Betty, like a lot of us is a TAFE overachiever. I mean we are talking a degree in psychology two master's degree, one from Harvard Graduate School of Education. She is a managing director of leadership supports, which is a education consulting company. She has worked as a teacher, as a principal and now she helps coach hundreds of school leaders across the country to provide professional development and data informed action planning.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
She does a lot of things and like a lot of us, she wears many hats. Mom, wife, badass leader in the education system. But the reason I was so excited to have Betty on to talk about her experience in the program is because the way that Betty approached my program is different than any other person I've seen in the program. And it's something that I try to get everybody to do and it's something that I, I don't know, say until I'm blue in the face and most people don't ever take my advice. And Betty did. And it was not only like just a proud moment for me, but it really, she helped be an example of why I stress this thing. And what it is is anytime you come into any of my programs, I really try to reiterate that the thing that we have been taught in school where it's like you have to do all of the things, you have to get an A, you have to finish every assignment is not how the real world works.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And it's not how my programs work. I offer a lot of things because I know everyone is dealing with something different and I want you to have the resources. But the point isn't to do it all. The point is to have discernment and figure out what do I need right now? What can I work on and can I just limit it to that? But the problem is we've all been so conditioned to think that we're behind or think that we need to do more or think that we have wasted something by not doing it all instead of truly understanding that if we focus on the one thing we need that will leapfrog us so far in advance of where we are, right? If I just slow down and do one thing, I will actually get further than trying to do everything all at once and doing it poorly, right?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So I try to say this and most people hear a little bit of it, but then the anxiety of No, I should be doing more the thoughts about how behind they are take over, but not Betty. Uh, Betty was in one of my six month programs and it was amazing and she'll talk about her story and why she did this, but I noticed that she wasn't coming to calls anymore. And this happens sometimes people life gets busy, life gets in the way. And I reached out to her to see if everything was okay just to check in and be like, Hey, I haven't seen you in a couple calls. Are you all right? Do you need anything? And she responded with, Nope, I'm good. I got my one thing. I'm working on it like I'm doing great. And it was so beautiful and profoundly like simple that like she didn't need to keep coming to coaching calls.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
She didn't need to take in everything thing that everybody else was saying. So we're gonna talk about that today and how she could have that mindset and the results that she started seeing from that. And I truly hope that like as you listen to her, regardless of if you're in the Quitter club or in my programs or not, however you're approaching your own goals for this year or how you're approaching your own personal development or how you're approaching one thing you wanna change in your life, I just want you to think about like if I take this approach, how could that be the best thing for me? How could it be different than what I'm trying to do now? It's so foreign for so many of us cuz we're so used to doing everything. And I want you to just consider what if it could be better if I just limited myself to the one thing I need to work on. Obviously you guys know I'm all about this. If you listen to the One Goal podcast, how I've forced my students to only pick one goal for 2023, it's the same exact concept. It's we're trying to limit overwhelm, we're trying to limit shutting down because there's just too much. And I think Betty is just such a beautiful example of how well this can work and how much transformation it can lead to. So without further ado, I'll stop rambling so you can hear from Betty. Hi Betty, thank you so much for joining me
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Today. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I'm so excited to have you and I'm so excited to talk about your experience in the coaching program Pav Path and just because it's sort of unique and I loved seeing your journey and I think it's something that's really going to help a lot of people, whether they join a coaching program or not. I think how you approach really anything and a, the investments that you take in yourself. So before we do that, can you tell us a little bit about like where you were at before you joined the program and why you joined?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Sure. So I was approaching my 10th year working for an education consultant firm and I've always been this really big purpose-driven person. So 10 years a milestone. I thought a lot about, you know, who am I? Who do I wanna be? Like what's next for me? And a good friend of mine did a mastermind with you and she talked a lot about it, but I just didn't think it was a good fit for me. Everything at my job was going really well and, and if anything I was like, oh, I don't wanna quit. I just wanna kind of see like what's next for me. And she talked a lot about the mindset work and that really intrigued me because I'm a a psychology major. I focus a lot on meditation, mindfulness, meditating with monks, like you name it, go, go into therapy. I've always known and have prioritized my mental health and my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And so the more I listen to your podcast, the more I thought like wow, like I need a refresher, I need accountability. I wanna be a part of this program. And I heard you live coaching folks in the way the folks had the opportunity to pause and reflect. And I thought that's exactly what I needed. So that's inevitably why I decided to join. And the other thing I didn't tell you is I reached out to a current person who was in your program cuz I of course did my due diligence. Love that, you know, and this, this is a lot of money, right? And so I'm like, okay, let me check to make sure. And then I spoke to someone who gave me her kind of like real time experience. I had all my questions and notes, you know, printed out and she confirmed for me again, like the mindset work was the foundation of the program. And that's exactly what I was looking for.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I love that so much for so many reason. I think that one, I mean like really doing your research and your diligence and knowing whether something is for you is obviously always a smart way to make any investment. But I think it is not rare. I mean I think a lot of us do mindset work, but really truly understanding how important mindset work is and prioritizing it. And even though on the podcast, I know I talk about my programs that like it's not about just quitting, right? Like I don't care if you quit or not and some people don't want to and that's great and some people do. It's the same work, right? Really learning how to manage your own mind and figuring out what you want and going after it. That might mean, you know, making it work better, being a better leader, getting a promotion, staying where you are and liking it.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Having more work-life balance, having less stress, all of those things. Or it might mean quitting and like figuring out what you really wanna do and uncovering that. So I love that you didn't let that sort of stop you because I think sometimes we think, well this isn't meant for me, right? And it's mm-hmm really having this idea of like, I'm gonna get what I came for and I want some mindset work and I wanna figure out, you know, why I'm doing the things I'm doing. So I love that you joined with that. So what were you hoping to get out of it? Because I think mindset work and sometimes sound a little airy. Very, or it's like what does that mean? Right? So when you were saying like you were looking for mindset work or you were looking, you know, to get that refresher, what was it that you were hoping was gonna come from it?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, I think I, I was at a point in my life where I was kind of just stuck. Mm Right. So, and like personal life and I was trying to figure out like what am I gonna do? Like I invested 10 years into this. Am I gonna invest another 10 years? Should I be doing something else? Should I, should I go back to school? Should I prioritize? And all those thoughts came flooding in. And I would also say another big piece was I always had this like voice in the back of my head, I would want you to say pressure of grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. Like my entire life story is about always having two jobs and you know, working my way through college and even after college, going to grad school and then going to grad school again and getting a second degree and learning new skills.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So I always felt pressure to do more. And then that's when I had to pause and ask myself like, do I need need to be doing more? And why? And I think that that is really what allowed me to look at your program and think, I need to think about these thoughts that I'm having. Yeah. That I'm telling myself. And so I ended up doing a, you had a live coaching call and I actually joined in and I put something in the chat and I was like really nervous and I've said something about like, you know, I went to Harvard and I'm the first in my family to go to college and we we're immigrants and so I have all this pressure. And then you were like, whoa, like you have so much loaded in this like one paragraph that you sent. And then that was the aha moment where like I'm telling myself I have to do all these things, all these expectations, but do I really? And I believed I did. And I think that was the ultimate reason why I decided to like, yes. Like let's figure out why I think these thoughts and you know, do, do I have to do this?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah. So good. And I think, you know, in the first part of that I think is so important for so many of us is that it's very natural in any role or in any stage of life to kind of get to a place where you reevaluate. You should, you should want to look back and be like, I've been doing this for X amount of years or 10 years, 20 years, 15. Do I still wanna do it? Right? Is this still working for me? I think we should question, you know, whether we would make the same decision over and over again in everything, even in your marriage, in your friendships, right? So many of us just become complacent like, I've already done this, this is what I'm doing, this is who I am, so I just have to stay with this. And it doesn't mean that you're gonna wanna change it, right?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's means like do I recommit? Do I decide like let's say within your marriage, right? Is it something where I constantly wanna think about like is this something that is still, you know, working for me If it's not, do I wanna change certain things? Like that's the only way you grow and you create kind of the life you want. And I think a lot of times we shame ourselves for that. It's like, why can't I just be happy I have something good or I should just keep doing this? And I love that you really just took the time to think like, I've been here for 10 years, what is the future gonna look like? What do I wanna make of this experience? Do I wanna stay, do I wanna go, do I wanna grow? Do I wanna work on my thoughts of like why do I need to grow? You know, I think all of that work is so pivotal in being able to continuously make intentional thoughts as we get older, as we grow at each stage. Instead of allowing kind of that complacency like I'm on this river, I'm just gonna let it take me where it goes and I'm never gonna like stop and kind of question, do I still wanna be here?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, I have this big fair, I think about being on my deathbed and then reflecting on my life and like, did I enjoy it? Was I present? Was I happy or did I focus on like the small little things and where was in my life at that time? I was focusing on all the small little things so that I can't wait to, can't wait to talk about.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay. So yeah, before I like talk about, you know, my experience of you in the program cause it was just so amazing and fascinating, but I want you to tell us before I do, like what was your experience? So what did you like get out of it?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well I think what's funny, it's probably the first class or course or whatever in my life that I didn't finish, right? That in itself is like a big, you know, a big accomplishment. But I signed up for the course and I printed all the materials out. I had my journal, my folder, my high letter. I blocked it off on my calendar, like when it comes to, you know, studying, I'm studious, like this is my jam. And I remember the first call and you were coaching someone else on the call and I was listening and I was like, wow, that really sounds like me. But one of the other participants, she was struggling turning something in at work and she wouldn't do it. It was like a one pager, it would take her an hour to do and she just each week, months and months and months went by and then the more you coach her and the more it came out, she said like, well what if I submitted, it's not good and I'm not actually really good at it and then people are gonna judge me and then I'm gonna think I'm a fraud.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And I was like, oh wow, that really resonated. I shared that to say the second coaching call you coached someone else and it was something like similar and it just hit me like a train. I've spent like the last, you know, 15, 20 years on mindset work and I know I'm type A, I'm a high achiever and I know I have a choice and I still choose to do it. I know that, but I never understood why I did it. Mm. And I would tell myself this story, both of my parents didn't have a college education. They didn't have actually any formal education. My dad went to school up to fourth grade. Mm-hmm , I was the first born in America. So I have this huge weight that I carry. I have six siblings, there's a, a lot of us and we really are out here trying to figure out and set up our, you know, our family, my relatives, they all live in Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So cousins, aunts, uncles. I just didn't have access to that like nuclear family. So I, that was the story. I told myself that I worked so hard because my parents sacrificed so much to come to the United States. How could I not look how much opportunity I have so that I took it all the way to the 10th degree and here I am like hustling, bustling. But then listening to the coaching that the other folks were receiving, I'll say, well, do I have to do everything like, you know, 150%? And at the end of the day I realized, so this was the big aha moment was everything I was doing in my life. Whether it was making vegan dinners, finishing, you know, a project at work, picking up my son at five o'clock on the dot, you know, every day from daycare. Everything was tied to my value and my worth.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So I had to, so if, if I'm planning, if I'm planning a baby shower, it has to be perfect because that's my value and my worth. If I'm picking up my son or meeting a friend for, for dinner, you know, I'm parked and ready to go and I'm there before they are because I have to, cuz that's tied to my value and work. When I realized that I had this big aha moment, like, oh my god, how exhausting and how impossible that I've been operating. Especially I just, uh, my son is three now, but you know, my friends tease me, but I have um, a little like whiteboard and it has all these activities. So when my son was like six, it was like tummy time check, read a book check and it's, it's hysterical to look back at and laugh. But that's what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Like every day he had to have these, you know, these exercises and these programs and these things because if he didn't have it then I am not a worthy person. But I never knew that I was telling myself that, but I was operating it that way. So that said, a big aha for me was I had to take a step back and and say, oh my goodness, no wonder why I'm stressed out. I'm tense, I'm having arguments with my husband. It's because I'm putting this pressure on me. Not just on huge project at work or a a wedding on every single mundane task during, during the day I'm connecting to my value and work. And because of that I'm like pushing through to make it happen. And wow how inhumane that is.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh my god, that's so huge and so many of us who hide behind these titles of type A or a perfectionist and we kind of wear it as a badge of honor. It's all a defense mechanism. It's all this thing of like I need to be on this hamster wheel to prove that I'm good enough. And if I let something slip, if you know I don't do it a hundred percent, then that's just evidence that I'm not good enough because that's what I feel inside, right? That's what I told myself. And so I'm gonna keep myself running and it is exhausting. It is just honestly the cruelest thing that we can do to ourselves instead of really understanding that like my worth is inherent and no matter whether I have a typo in my email or if I the baby shower is not the best baby shower in the world, that doesn't change what my worth as a human or my value as a mother or any of this stuff, right?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
My worth as a worker. And it's fascinating to see, you know, so many people be able to drop it once they uncover that. Right? Myself included, I used to think that it was such a good thing being a perfectionist, that means you care about it, right? Mm-hmm , you care about what you're doing. It's such a crock of vs. And I realize now and you know, we joke about it a lot in my community or on Instagram cuz I'm like, I just could care less if I make mistakes if I sent out the wrong email if, and I just never thought I would be that person, but I realize that because I'm so rooted in my own self-worth and I'm like, who cares if I do something and it doesn't look good or it doesn't work out good or I'm not putting out the best branding, you know, like that's not why people are coming to me. But I never could have gotten there right? Without doing this mindset work because of the same exact thing that you're talking about. It's like when unconsciously how people viewed me or how I came off was tied to how my inherent worth then yeah, I'm constantly going to have to kill myself to be perfect.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So you get that aha and then what do you
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Do? So I get that aha moment and I'm like furiously like writing everything out and I'm connecting it and I'm having conversations and it's just making so much sense. It was like that missing, that missing piece for, for me. And then what I really wanna do is I wanna practice. I wanna see, you know, cuz even you said like if you sent an email out, you wouldn't care. Oh no, I'm not there yet. Right? Yeah. . And so I work for an education consulting firm and I lead the division in strategic planning and leadership coaching. Like, that's like my jam. So I plan things out to a T and the reason why that's important is because we tell our clients all the time, you can have this sexy strategic plan, but it's about implementation. How do you take this document and implement it and operationalize it in your real life?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to implement it. I didn't wanna learn anything else. I still joined a couple calls because that voice in my head was like, you paid for it, you wanna be present and you wanna show up. I had an accountability group so I would, you know, I would show up, but the big thing ringing in my head is like, I need to try this. Right? I need to try. What does it feel like to let things go? And it was very hard because let me give you an example. One of them is washing the dishes and cleaning the house. I did it every day. You just washed the dishes every day and you clean the house even if you had the longest day ever at work, even if your son was having a tantrum after you made dinner.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's just kind of what you did. And so I would talk to you through the, you know, through Voxer and you were like, well, you don't have to clean it every day. Just like let it be. Well the next day when I woke up and it was there I was. Like, this house is a mess. It's, you know, I can see the dishes and it's still dirty. So I'm not really understanding this idea of like, you know, you can let it go. Like you don't have to do it. So it's like, well let's just practice. Let's try a little bit more. Would I rather wash the dishes or would I rather sit down and watch some tv? And that's just something that you'll just never see me do, right? Like, just sit down, let me try. And so I tried and I sat down like, okay, this is kind of, you know, this is kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
And I think by like the third day I'm like, okay, now it's time to like wash the dishes. But the reason why that's important is that night I would've done it because I have to do it right? Like you have to have a clean house, you have to have things, you know, ready for the next day. And I, I remember seeing this Instagram meme once, like with um, a mom was posting of course. And she said something like a house is to be lived in like this idea of like, you have to like always have it clean and yes, when we have guests and we have sure, but this like pressure, like no one, my husband wouldn't dare . No one is telling me I need to wash the dishes. Yeah. But I'm telling myself, and more and more of those things came, came up like, do I have to have vegan meals?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
My son was vegan till he was two years old, so now he's, he's PEs so I, I don't eat meat, but we do, we do some seafood, but for two years, like, you know how it's feeding a toddler, it's, it's hard enough. Nevermind, you know, nevermind vegan with no cheese. Yeah. And no meat. But I told myself I had to do that because that was the way to do things. So for my implementation, my big takeaway was I still have the, like the impulse and the desire, but I stop myself and I say, does it really matter? Do I need to do this? Like how important is it? And it's so crazy because if I had to do it out of 190% of the things that I told myself I had to do, don't need to be done. Yeah. In the manner that need to be done.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And I didn't think it'd be that high, right? Like 10% of the things you must show up for and you must make sure are absolutely there. But now you know, I, I had a baby shower, um, you know, ex I'm expecting my second congratulations. Thank you. And I was like, we don't need baby shower games, we don't need decorations, eh, I just really want really, really good food. And it was just, this felt really great just to be able to say a year ago or two years ago when I had my baby, three years I guess for my other baby shower, it was like, you know, a little bit more extravagant and I had to, I had to follow, right? Like all these things. So back to your question about what did I do slowly, which is how to teach myself to sit down and to pause and ask like, does this matter, how much do I need to put into this?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
And now I'm in, so it's January, I'm like over six months of implementation, life is good. Having my second kid come now. Like what I've learned and the timing of it, I mean it honestly, it's just perfect because I would've been so uptight. I would've been sleep deprived, I would've been angry, I would've done all these things thinking I was sacrificing for the wellbeing of my daughter. When in actuality it was just kind of reinforcing this message of like, I have to do these things when I don't. Yes. So now everyone says with the second kid, you are a little bit more relaxed. But I am definitely way more relaxed. And I'll say for me in quotes, because my friends still tease me, I'll make way more relaxed for me. Which is a, is a big deal.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I love this so much. And I was chuckling when she was saying this is because when you join my programs, whether it was paper path or now in the Quitter Club, one of the things I try to stress from the beginning, the welcome video, like, I mean I try to hammer it home and I don't normally get across to people because most people have been raised in our society to believe that like I have to do everything. I have to get an a plus. I have to check off every worksheet that goalie gives. I have to be at every call I have to there. And this is like a honestly a symptom of capitalism is this idea of like, you have to squeeze every single ounce out of something. Like you can't leave anything behind. And so whether that's like you eat everything off your plate or whatever it is, even if you're full and it hurts your body, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You keep eating it. Right? If you, obviously we know with productivity it's like how do I squeeze out every last drop? And it's like, why does that have to be that way? Why not just let some of it stay there? Right? Take what you need and what you don't. And so what I really try to stress with people is like when you come to these, it's like a buffet, right? I, I'm gonna give you a lot of information because I, everyone's at a different place and everyone's struggling with something different and I want to help you. But you don't go to a buffet to eat everything. You go and you pick what you want, what you need, right? What you want to nourish you when you eat that. And what I try to give people is like whenever I join a program, I adopted a thought of like, what is one thought that I'm gonna get from this program?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I just need one. I don't need the program. I don't need to do every single thing perfectly. I don't need to go to all the calls. I don't need to do all, I just need one thought to practice that's gonna change my life. And I remember remember saying that in the beginning of you guys' program, just like I do all the time. And again, I think for most people it goes in one year I wanna app the other cuz it's like I paid $4,000. I like, there's no, I need to get everything out of this. And I try to remind people like, you have access to the calls, you know, you can rewatch it, you can kind of do this work as you're going through it. And what was amazing of Betty was a lot of times it's very normal. Like let's say we have 20 people in a group, you know, after a couple of months it might be only like 10 people, 12 people that show up for the calls.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
People are busy, some people miss and they come at different calls, some people fall off for whatever reason. And what I try to do is like check in with people and be like, Hey, you haven't been to a couple calls, I just wanna make sure everything is okay. Like, all right. Cuz sometimes people get overwhelmed and then they have a lot of shame and they're like, I've already missed three so I can't go back. And I just wanna make sure that's not the case. So I reached out to Betty and I was like, Hey Betty, I haven't seen you at some of the calls, I'm just wondering what's up. Like if you're okay, if you need anything, let me know. And she responds with, I got my one thing and I'm just working on that and I don't need anymore. You know, everything has been great.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
It's been changing my life and it was the best message I've ever I ever could have received because I was like, you get it? Yes. Like you didn't pay me $4,000 to do every single worksheet. Like you didn't come here for me to give you more work. You came here to get what you need. Like what is something you're struggling with and noticing, like taking the time to implement for six months or eight months or whatever it is. This one thought, this one practice fundamentally changed your life, right? Fundamentally changed how you approach every single thing. How you started questioning like, do I really need to have it be like this? Why do I have to that you're gonna get so much more out of than if you show up every single call and write every single worksheet and are so stressed that I haven't done all of it and I'm not, you know, I'm trying to change my perfectionism and I'm trying to change my people pleasing and I'm trying to change my shame and I'm trying to change, you know, it's like too much. Your brain's just like, no, I can't do this. And so it was like so profound. And so, I mean obviously as a coach you just like swelled my heart. I was like, you get it, you get it, you're doing it. I was so proud of you and I was just so proud to see like how much it was changing your life.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And what's what's exciting is by not continuing was part of the work.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yes. Cause
Speaker 2 (25:51):
My voice behind me was like, of course you have to show up on Tuesday and you have to do the pre-work. And you know, I had already put it in my schedule and my plan and already knew it. But that was like, no, you, you don't, you don't need to do it. And so that phase of my life is like redefining my standard. Like there are just some quotes that I wrote down from some of the, um, talks we've had. Can my best not be perfect but still be good enough? Like I have four post-its on my computer that I look at each day and it's like this idea and this illusion of perfection and I'm supposed to be this person. I wanna laugh with my kid, I wanna be present, I wanna be, you know, filled with joy. But I can't do that if I keep telling myself that what I'm doing is not good enough or I need to try harder.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Like everyone who knows me knows I try so hard and, and I, I, you know, to do the best that I can. So if I make a mistake, there's grace there and it's taught me how to be be more gracious, you know, toward towards others and realizing like, we're humans. And, and so it's just been this awesome amazing journey where I'm like, Nope, I don't want to hear any, anything more. You know, I'll pop in and I'll listen to some, some of your podcasts, I'll follow you on Instagram. Like, ooh, I like that. You know, and I'll yeah, I'll continue it. But everyone knows who's like in my circle knows like my priority right now is being able to unlearn all of these things that I have kind of thought defined me over the course of my, my adulthood. And that's the piece that I wanna really focus on, is I have to unlearn it and then figure out new ways to new ways to operate. So it's not easy by any means, but is it the most important thing to me? Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And it's so profound and it's so simple, right, in the sense that we all, obviously if you ask anybody, like everyone wants to be present, but we don't realize that we're not because there's so much drama and suffering that we just bring on because of the shoulds, right? And it's just unloading a little bit of that, right? It's like, what is important here? What is gonna matter to me in five years? Am I gonna look back and think, did, was that email perfect or am I gonna remember my son when they're, when he was three and how I showed up at that time, it's so, so good. But it doesn't just stop there because the, what's funny is you didn't show up to the calls, but you, I mean, and you kind of kept in touch through Boxer and I wanted to, I want you to talk about what happened even at work and like what, cause I remember when you first came, there was a little bit of talk about, you know, how do you approach a certain type of conversation and what what you wanted to do. So can you tell us a little bit about what happened on the Workfront for
Speaker 2 (28:15):
You on the Workfront? The, one of the key words that I heard you say in the beginning was this like recommitment. And it was so exciting because I've been working for an education consultant for, for 10 years. It's the longest time I've ever been with an organization. And because we always have this mindset of we need to grow, we need to have, you know, all these things in place. Like when I went through one of the exercises, I'm like, wow, I have all of this at my job, right? Like, I have the autonomy, I have the major impact on kids across the country and educators and support and flexibility and it's meaningful. And I walked away thinking like, wow, this is really where I want to be. But if I didn't kind of go through kind of the, the thinking behind it, I would've kept in that mindset of like, how do I grow?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
How do we, how do I be better, right? Like what's more, what's more? But just pausing and taking that opportunity to see, I think, um, recommitment is the big word where I'm like, yes, 10 years in, let's see what the next like 10 years will look like. And that was a big aha moment for me, especially when you join a program that says like, you know, lessons from a quitter and then everyone's talking about how they wanted to quit their job. And I'm like, ah, that's just kind of not, you know, not where I am. But that same thought process definitely applied. And, and you talked a lot about that. You talked a lot about like, Hey, I'm not trying to get you to quit, I just need you to assess and kind of see like where you are and, and what are, what are your thoughts telling you? And so that was my big takeaway.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I love like all the implementation that you have been kind of putting in. And I think a lot of times we are on board, we wanna do something, we wanna like stop our people blazing or we wanna stop the perfectionism, but obviously it's gonna also affect people around you, right? And there's gonna be people, especially like with people pleasing, I think boundaries can trigger other people that weren't used to their being boundaries. But I know when we talked about earlier, we were talking about kind of this ripple effect on your marriage and with your husband. So can you talk a little bit about how these changes with you have sort of affected that relationship?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Oh, definitely. I've been this person for, you know, my entire life. And so the first time I, I didn't wash the dishes or that I didn't, you know, have things cleaned up. My husband was kind of like confused by like, you know, you know what's going on. And he would make some comments about it and then I'd have to pause him and I'd have to say, honey, like, I'm trying to let this go, so I'm gonna need your, you know, your support. And he's like, oh, like, okay. Because we would get into these really like big arguments where because of my perfectionism, he would reap the benefits,
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right. And let, let's be super clear, like there was this Instagram post the other day and I laughed hysterically, but the wife was like driving the car on the way to the store and she's like, imagine you woke up and you always had toothpaste, your deodorant, your socks, you know, because I'll buy all the things for, you know, for my husband when I'm out or when they're, when they're in sale and small things like that. But then, you know, wake up now you, you better get your own deodorant, right? like that, that's not gonna be on my, on my to-do list. But I had to like work with him and he'd make comments like, why haven't you emptied the dishwasher yet? Why? Because for five years I've always done it. And instead of me yelling at him, I have to say, honey, I didn't get a chance to get to it today.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I'm trying to let some things go. I think I can do it probably tomorrow at, you know, X timing and if you like, would see his face. He's like, you know, shocked. But when I talk him through it, it's like the reason why I'm so tense and I'm, you know, um, you know, so tense or, or you know, I'm having an attitude like late at night, it's probably cuz I'm exhausted. And so in order for me to change some of those feelings and thoughts, I have to let some things go. So he is getting better at it. I have to be the one to be able to pause and be like, honey, I'm trying to let, and he's like, oh, that thing that you're learning, right? Oh, that thing that you're, you know, you're, you're focusing
Speaker 1 (32:03):
On, I can't tell you how much I love this. I'm gonna tell you why because this is the mistake that a lot of people make. We don't realize we're doing this, is that whenever you wanna make a decision for yourself and there's a, you're worried about the people around you, your parents, your spouse, your children, whatever. And we come from this place, we don't realize we're doing this, but we are seeking their permission, right? We're asking them like, is it okay if I don't wash the dishes? Like are you gonna be okay? And we're so terrified of people having a negative emotion or having a negative thought or thinking something bad about us. And so we stop ourselves because like we're trying to control everyone's emotions. And the secret is that you never have to ask for permission, but you can ask for support, right?
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And oftentimes we avoid the conversation altogether and we just like, we don't wanna talk about the elephant in the room. We don't wanna know what their thoughts are. We don't wanna get triggered by like their thoughts and then I'm gonna get angry and we're gonna fight and we're gonna have all this. And we make so much drama about it as opposed to really addressing the elephant in the room and being like, this is what I'm doing and this is the support I need from you. And it's not gonna be a one time conversation. That person, like you just said so beautifully, they benefited from these maladaptive behaviors. You have not that a purpose, but like yeah you being a people blazer or you being a perfectionist or you being type A and women in general, I mean taking on the emotional labor and like really all of the mental, like the managerial labor in the house, knowing all the birthdays, planning all the parties, doing all the grocery shopping, literally having a mental can.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
It's a full-time job. And when you start letting go of some of that, the person that benefited from that might be annoyed because they didn't have to. And that's okay. They're allowed to have their human emotions and you can work through it and hopefully if you have a supportive enough partner, even if you don't by the way, like even if your partner doesn't agree with it and is upset, that's fine. They'll learn how to manage their emotions, right? You, you are not responsible for their emotions and you have to really understand that and really constantly keep like reiterating like this is what I'm trying to do here. This is why I'm doing it and I need your support and it's okay if you don't like it like this, right? If you don't like it then you can d unload the dishwasher, right? You can wash the dishes.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
It's perfectly fine that you want it that way. Right? I'm not doing it anymore. And I think it's such a empowering way of really not just getting the sport you need, but here's this critical thing is that for so many of us, what we need to make a kraken, what we need to start really understanding is that there is a difference between me choosing something to do something and being okay with how other people perceive it and me only doing things because I want other people to be happy, right? And when we start making more of a crack of like, okay, other people don't have to get it, other people can have their thoughts, other people cannot gimme permission, other people can not be supportive and I still get to do what I wanna do. Like that is one of the most profound kind of lessons that so many of us have to learn later in life cuz we didn't learn as children. And I just love that you've learned how to still go after the thing you want even when there are these obstacles. Like maybe the husband doesn't understand what I'm doing and I have to make him understand.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Well I think the funny joke is if you look back, the boxer, the last like eight messages are about my husband because it's like, well cuz when he first said it, I was defensive, like, why didn't I do that? You know? And then be like, because I had this and I had that and you know, all the, but what it, what it really came down to is I'm intentionally doing this. So I think we're, we're in a space now where he's like, he gets it, he's an educator as well, which is super helpful. I feel like we sit down and we have like weekly meetings. I know my my friends, they laugh at us. But we do, we have weekly meetings, we sit down, we kind of talk through like, you know, what are we focusing on this week? What's the priority? And this comes up so he knows like what's, you know, what's what's going on?
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And again, it was not a cake walk, it was not easy. But I knew that if this was something that I was gonna change my behavior, I would have to change my thoughts then I would need to just again take it, kind of take it day by day. And I am thrilled with seeing the, the way I'll, I'll parent my, my second kid, you know what I mean? Cause I think about like, oh wow, that was, I, you know, I breastfed my kid till he was two cause I kind of thought I had to, right? Like those are the things I'm talking about. Like I, that's the best day you could do for your kids. So I did it right now I'm like, hey, there is no way , I'm breastfeeding my daughter till she's till she's two. It's not happening. I can tell you she's not here yet. And I can tell you it's not happening right because of the mental, physical, the toll that it took on me. But there was that message that I told myself that I had to do it. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh my god. So good. This also touches on something you said earlier when you were like, do I wanna watch these dishes or do I wanna sit and maybe watch tv? Let's say The thing is, is like everything is a give and take, right? Everything is like, we are giving something, whether it's our time or tension or money or you know, we're paying it in some way. You know, I think a lot of times when we look at like, oh our house is dirty and let's, or not dirty or let's say like, we haven't picked up or whatnot or we haven't done the dishes and we have all the shame because of what we should do. And you know, a good mother or a good wife does this or a good, you know, person. We have so much morality around this stuff as opposed to like, okay, I have a three-year-old and my house is gonna be have a lot of toys around.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
That's just what's gonna happen, right? And we kind of make this kind of dramatic thing. But really the key to understanding and really changing this behavior is not just leaving it in a vacuum of like, do I wanna wash my dishes or not? Like obviously we all want our dishes to be washed. It's like what do I have to give up in order to clean my house every night? I have to give up rest. I have to give up. Maybe connecting with my husband and sitting on the couch and having a conversation or, or a glass of wine or watching TV or whatever. I have to give up. Being able to read and doing something that I really like. Enjoy giving myself 10 minutes. You know, I know with you like having, you're gonna have two kids under three. Like we don't really get that much time to ourselves.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So maybe the time I spend instead of picking up after my toddler is gonna be me doing something that just like fills me back up. Right? That's what I'm exchanging. And I think like even when you're talking with your husband about like, what is the priority for me, this is what I'm letting go of is because like what is the price I'm paying for that? Right? So like it is the irritability, it is being stressed all the time. It is like having to constantly be frustrated or whatnot. And so when I start deciding consciously and I practice it, like this is the key, everybody listening, it's like, it's not like you come and you get one thought and then all of a sudden your whole life has changed and you never think your other thoughts again. Mm-hmm like you, you've spent decades creating this persona in your head of yourself, of the perfectionist of the type A, of the people of these.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
And luckily it won't take you decades to undo. It might take you six months or a year. And it's worth doing that because as you slowly commit to the process of changing this and really showing yourself what is the benefit I'm getting from this, it's not that I just wanna not clean my house. It's that I wanna give myself permission to rest. I wanna give myself permission to not have to do everything for everyone. I wanna give myself permission to be a messy, messy human that just like is not gonna have their thing. Like everything is not gonna be perfect. How great that's gonna be my life. And so I love that you were like, you frame it in that way for yourself of really noticing like, what am I gaining by doing this?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Ooh, I love that. I'm gonna add that question. What am I gaining? Cause the question I had wrote down, what happens if I don't do this? Yeah. That for me was so powerful. If I don't do the dishes, then the dishes aren't done until I do them, right? Yes. And then, then when you talk about like, I'm not doing this right now or to the level that needs to happen, what do I gain from? And I love, um, I love that pos that positive spin on it. But when I mention that 90%, those things that I, I asked that question, what if I don't do this? The answer was like nothing. Right? But, but it never felt like nothing. It felt like this huge heavy, like you of course you have to do it. And the relief I feel of not having that pressure where like I don't have to do it.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I did say something about you like, um, a while ago said Keena one of my good friends who you had a mastermind with, I'm like, I know golly talks about I don't have to wash the dishes, but at the end of the day, you know, five days passes, someone's gonna wash it and now, now everything's like stuck on the plate. But then when I asked her, she said, well you can um, you know, pay someone. I'm like, yeah, I've been trying to get someone to comment. So anyway, yeah that was my, my mini event of like, hey, like there are consequences to things. But generally speaking, for the most part, like, you know, what do you gain from not doing it right now at this moment? What do you gain from not feeling that pressure of having to like let it be my choice? Like, you know, I feel rejuvenated and this is a good time for me to do it versus I can't close my eyes unless this is done.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Absolutely. And the biggest piece that we don't realize we're doing, and when I say you don't have to do this, first of all, when I say you don't have to do anything, I don't mean that there aren't consequences. There are, but knowing you have a choice is really important. Cuz for so many of us, like you said, it doesn't feel like you have a choice. It's like, I have to do this every night before I close my eyes. I've just made a rule that I have to do the dishes and I have to pick up everything. No you don't. Right? Maybe you wanna do the dishes and not pick up. Maybe you wanna ask your husband to do the dishes. Maybe you wanna pay someone to come do the dishes. There's a lot of different ways to do this. And when you start realizing I have a choice in it and there are some consequences with that, would I rather have the consequences and get the gains, figure out what I'm gaining from it and like, are the consequences as bad as I think they are, right?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Maybe they're not as bad. Maybe it's like you said like, okay, I wait a day or two, it's not really that big of a deal and I put it in the dishwasher and it gets washed. Or like for some of us it's really even, can I just leave all the dishes, the dishes till the end of the day? Like it's like I have to wash it as soon as I put it in, right? And I have to like spend my whole day like getting back to the sink and washing all the dishes. It's just like figuring out, okay, what are the consequences I'm willing to kind of live with in order to also change the way that my brain works? Right? Like really test out, like you just said, I did the same experiment. I stopped working out for two years just to prove to myself I don't have to do it.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Because in my brain it was always like, I have to, you have to, you have to work out. You're being lazy. You have to. And I'm like, no I don't. I really don't. And I didn't do it. And then it's amazing recently I started and I have no drama around it and I do it three days a week and, and I do it cuz I love my body and I don't punish myself because I truly prove to myself that I don't. And there were some consequences. My back started hurting, my neck started hurting and I was like, okay, I want to move my body, but I wanna do it in a way that feels good to me and I don't wanna do it from a place of obligation all the time. And then, and this is what I was gonna say is the biggest piece that most people are missing is that when we say we have to, we don't realize we're like, I should, we're attaching morality to these things that are neutral.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Whether your house is cleaned up or not does not determine whether you're a good person or not. But we don't believe that. We think like a good person is organized and has their everything together and their house is always clean and it's spotless and there's nothing on the counters and the dish is always done and the food is always vegan and it's always made fresh. Like that's what a good person does. And so that's why it feels so much like, we feel so much shame and guilt when we don't do it. As opposed to this is a completely neutral act. Whether I work out or not doesn't change my worth as a person or whether I'm a good mother, right? Or I'm a good wife or whatever. Whether I wash the dishes or not doesn't mean anything about who I am, right? So then I get to decide, do I want to do this thing or not?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Why am I doing it? But so many of us are driven by this fear of, oh no, I don't wanna be seen as a bad person, so I'm gonna do all the things. I don't wanna be seen as a bad employee. I don't wanna see me as a bad wife, mother, son, you know, brother, whatever it is. So I'm gonna do everything for everyone. I'm gonna do it perfect. I have to, you know, always work hard. I have to always give 110%. And then when you're like, but what if I didn't? What if I was a good person? Regardless I could believe that. Then I get to choose. Do I wanna do maybe like you're, you might get to a place where you're like, you know what? I just like doing my dishes every day. Fine. There's nothing wrong with doing your dishes every day, right? You can decide because that, I don't know, I just, that's the way I prefer it. But if I don't do it one night, I'm not gonna use that as a reason to call myself terrible names and tell myself how, how you know, of a hot mess I am and how my husband hates me or whatever. Like the drama we create in our mind. So like that's really the reason to do it. It's to really show yourself like, oh I can do these things and still be the same person I am right now.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
So powerful. It was so great just to run through all the things that I do on a day-to-day basis and realize that I was doing them and I don't have to.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, I love it. And you were telling me something when we talked earlier, we had a conversation before this call when you were saying that I think it was like one or two questions you asked. Even when you see your husband kind of getting a little worked up about something or like stressing about something and you wanna kind of bring us, I don't know if you remember that, but I thought those questions were so powerful and so good and so if you have those, I would love for you to
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Share. Yeah. One question I have on this post, it is, can my best not be perfect but still good enough? I have, how is this the best thing for me and my family right now? And then the other one is, what happens if I, oh, what happens if I don't do this? Does it really matter? Does it need to be done this way?
Speaker 1 (44:24):
What I was referring to is, I think when we talked, you were saying that like sometimes your husband gets worked up and you are, you like to kind of stay in the present moment and you were saying like I just ask him like, are we safe? Is everything like safe? Yeah. And then he was like, and you're like, yeah. And you're like, okay, then it's okay. Then everything's fine. I'm like, ah. It's so profound cuz it's so simple. And it's like when we take these little everyday things that derail our life and we kind of zoom out and it's like, do I have everything I need? Am I safe? Is this really a problem? Like it can help ground you so quickly.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yes, absolutely. Wow, that's great.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
, you're the one that gave it to me.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (45:02):
You have the great
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Questions. I'm great
Speaker 1 (45:05):
. Yeah, you are great. Honestly buddy, this is so powerful and I'm so grateful to you for being an example of what coaching can be and what is possible with coaching. Because again, I know I was this person too, I used to go to programs and I was the straight A student so it was like I'm gonna be teachers fed and I'm gonna mark everything off and I'm gonna be on time and I'm gonna do all this. And when I let that go, I'm the same. I go to programs, I've done so many programs that have changed my life that I haven't done more than like two videos. I'm like, I don't need anything else. You just gave me the thing I needed and I need to go like think about this and let it break my brain a little bit and constantly dwell on it and journal on it and let this like be my transformation for the next couple of months instead of always needing to do everything and be perfect and do it all.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
And I think your example of really implementing that and doing it after you paid $4,000 for a program and after you did decide that you were gonna like, you know, you wanted to change to really sit with the like, what if this is just enough of a change, I can just change this and like this could be good enough and I could decide that this was worth it, right? Because it's just a thought like you telling yourself I haven't done enough or I didn't get my money's worth or whatever is a thought and you could just decide like, changing one thing will change my life. And of course, I mean like what you talk about, I mean think about the ripple effects for the rest of your life, right? How can that be worth it? I think it's just such a profound example
Speaker 2 (46:26):
And one piece I didn't discuss obviously make that connection is because I spent some time on that implementation and realized how much I wanted to be present and enjoy my life. I decided to focus this past year on me, you know, outside of being like a mom and a wife cuz I was, we had a kid, you know, within our first year of marriage that I focused on like working out. And I remember leaving the house and my son would be like, mommy, you don't go. And I would have that like mom guilt, but I knew I needed time for me and I knew I needed to do these things. And so this past year was really about how do I grow, how do I focus on me? Like individually I started playing pickleball and I guess in short would be I am happier now because I'm more in touch with who I am, what do I want and what's important to me. And letting go some of these things that I thought I had to do has given me an opportunity to kind of explore kind of other, other aspects. And so that's kind of my big takeaway is these are all small little things and I really wanna focus on the big stuff, but I couldn't because I was caught in, caught in this like messaging and um, pattern of doing things I thought I was supposed to do. And when I stopped and looked around, the only person telling me to do that was myself.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Oh, so, so good. Betty, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. I know that this is just the beginning of so many more amazing things for you and I love watching your journey and seeing all, and I'm so excited for you. You're gonna have your baby any day now. You're
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Literally any, any day. And I'm proud of you. Like I've learned so much from you. And then when you had asked about doing this podcast, I was like, yes. Like it is a priority and I want people to be, to learn and share because there's so many folks that there for different reasons why they do what they do, but just being able to pause and understand that and then be able to make a decision on whether they wanna proceed or, or adjusting. So thank you for spreading , spreading the knowledge and the work. Um, well it was well worth it and I'm super excited to connect back with you when you, when the little one comes. Cause I'm sure there'll be a, a another other things to talk through, but
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Absolutely, absolutely. I would love that. And thank you so much. That's very kind of you to say. And the thing is, is like for all these people now, you know, we have a membership, so it's not even the $4,000 kind of for six months. Um, you can, you can do this work for much more affordable price. And so, and you can use Betty as an example that you don't have to change everything. You just change one small thing and it has a ripple effect on so many areas of your life. So thank you again Betty, and congrats on a new baby. I'm so excited for you and I'm sure that we will be in contact.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Sounds good. Thanks Goly.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Hey, if you are looking for more in-depth help with your career, whether that's dealing with all of the stress, worry, and anxiety that's leading to burnout in your current career or figuring out what your dream career is and actually going after it, I want you to join me in the Quitter Club. It is where we quit what is no longer working like perfectionism, people pleasing imposter syndrome, and we start working on what does and we start taking action towards the career and the life that you actually want. We will take the concepts that we talk about on the podcast and apply them to your life and you will get the coaching tools and support that you need to actually make some real change. So go to lessons from a quitter.com/quitter club and get on the wait list. Doors are closed right now, but they will be open soon.