A conversation with my husband about my quitting journey
Ep. 156
| with
Pejman Kalkhoran

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So many of you ask me how to navigate family and spousal support when making huge changes in your career. 

I figured it might be interesting to hear it from the spouse’s perspective. 

While our experience is unique to us, I think it can help you in approaching these subjects.

In this episode, we talk about. 

  • What his experience was of me walking away from my legal career 
  • How he thought the podcast was the wrong move for me (WHAT?!?) 
  • How I stopped seeking his permission and instead asked for what I needed. 
  • The best part of this journey. 
  • And so much more. 

Show Transcript
Just cause I didn't know and it was really not fair to ask me to approve something that I really don't know anything about. Those discussions were always funny to me because I didn't know what you were wanting to do. I didn't understand why you wanted to do it but somehow you wanted me to say hey, go for it.

Hey, welcome to Lessons From a Quitter where we believe that it is never too late to start over. No matter how much time or energy you spent getting to where you are, if ultimately you are unfulfilled, then it is time to get out. Join me each week for both inspiration and actionable tips so that we can get you on the road to your dreams.

Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of Lessons From a Quitter. I am so excited you are here. You're in for a treat today. I have my husband on the podcast. I somehow wrangled him into coming on. He was a little hesitant. Didn't really understand why I wanted him on but it turned out to be such a fun conversation for me. And I hope you guys enjoy it. The reason I wanted him on was because I mean, one, you guys a lot of times asked me more about my story. And I think that it's interesting to see it from his perspective. I also think that sometimes looking at where I'm at or where I teach things, it's easier to think that I've just always been like this or it was just easy for me. And I want to assure you that that's not the case. And I think he really kind of shows and talks to the transformation and change I've made as a person. But the main reason I wanted him on is that I hear a lot from you guys about this kind of the tricky navigation of doing this transition: changing jobs, quitting jobs and how to deal with spouses in that transition, whether they're supportive or not, how to have these conversations. And so I figured I would share our journey and we could talk from his perspective about what it was like to watch me kind of go through this transformation and support me through it. So we're talking all things the last seven years and what it's sort of been like for him. And it was eye-opening for me and entertaining. Uh, I hope that you enjoy it and take some tips and tricks for your own conversations with your spouse or family members. And without further ado here is my husband, Pejman Kalkhoran. Hi Pejman, welcome to the Lessons From a Quitter podcast.

My life is now complete, this is one of my bucket list items is to be on a podcast. And now I get to be on your podcast.

I know, it’s so special.

Very happy to be here, team.

It's very awkward because, just to paint a picture for the people at home, it's 10 o'clock and we're actually in bed recording this because the kids are spending the night at my parents. So we had a night away to be able to get this conversation out. I've been wanting to have you on the podcast and you've been reluctant.

The first time we've talked in two weeks.

Okay. I wanted to have you on because I get a lot of questions from people that want to quit, that want to make big transitions. And obviously, you know, your spouse is going to be a part of that. And sometimes spouses don't understand why, you know, you want to make big changes. And anyways, and so there's a lot of discussion around that. And I thought what better person than you to talk really about my transition out of law and kind of what was going on. And I think that people see me now and so sometimes it doesn't look like I made that big of a change and I feel like I need you to vouch for me. So let's talk about it because I want to take people a little bit back. Why don't you tell people what you do for a living, what you've done since basically the whole time we've been together?

Yeah, I have a business with my dad. We design and manufacture embedded electronics.

Okay. So for people that don't understand that, basically make computers. And the reason I say tell people that, because I think it's vital because I used to bash entrepreneurship and business so much, and it really never dawned on me that you've always been an entrepreneur, I don't know why I didn't make that connection. But, um, you were working as an entrepreneur. I was working as a lawyer. And I just want you to maybe tell people a little bit about what I was like as a lawyer.

Yeah. I mean, uh, I need to be careful here, but um, you know, you, you were obviously a very driven person, always very hardworking but super consumed by your job. And I remember, uh, when we were dating, you used to have this Blackberry and we literally wouldn't do anything because we were worried about your bosses texting you or messaging you that you'd have to come into the office. So we would just sit there and wait and stare at your phone, waiting for…

No we would not.

I'm exaggerating, but you were very, uh, anxiety-ridden. Yes. So and there were parts of the job that I knew you really liked and that you wanted to do and and uh that you appreciated but obviously a huge parts of the job that you hated. Um and I think even hate's not strong enough of a word for some of that stuff. So in a super conservative person, even though I was running the business, you were always, I don't want to say against entrepreneurship, but really always thinking about the stable route and what's, you know, very, very low risk tolerance for sure. And so to see you now is, uh, honestly insane. I mean, if people knew you back then and knew you now like I can't even explain to you that you being on Tik Tok, you know, how that would have just never crossed my mind 10 years ago. Like maybe the last person on earth to be on Tik Tok, was was Goli.

So, yeah, I love that. And um, I mean, just to clear up when you say that I was very conservative, I think you mean risk-averse, not cause I think people that know me know that I'm actually very liberal. So I think what you mean is like, yeah, I was extremely risk averse, extremely anxiety-ridden, very Type A in the sense of like, you know, I got what I needed to get done but I got it done with a lot of stress. Like I wasn't the calm everything is under control kind of person.

Yeah and you're obviously passionate about everything that you do. So you would take a lot of the things that would happen at work personally. And I think that that did take a toll on you, not just personally, but also professionally again, that's uh, that's one of the reasons you're successful now but you just weren't in the right lane.

Right. Well, and I think I didn't know how to manage those emotions. I think you're absolutely right. Like the thing is I brought a lot of it home so I mean, you did have to bear the brunt of a lot of the anxiety and stress and yeah, I mean, just sadness after a while. What's interesting though, is when, I think maybe a lot of people may not know kind of my journey or our journey when we were in Arizona, I was a federal public defender. It was a very stressful job. We had Kian, um, our first child, our son, and then we moved to California and the plan was like, you know, I take a couple of months to settle in, take care of Kian and while he gets a little bit bigger and then I find a job. And when we moved to California, we were actually under more financial strain. Like we bought a house that was much more expensive than living in Arizona was. And I remember like you're a very even-keeled person, don't really get stressed. And you were kind of stressing out about how we were gonna manage that. And so I start looking for a job and I start complaining to you about how horrible every job sounds and how badly I don't want to do it. Just, you know, thinking that I'm just complaining normal complaints and you were the one, and I've given you this credit from the beginning, that like started telling me well why don't you just not do it? And I'm wondering for a lot of people that I think, you know, have spouses that are really unhappy and want to support them in that way like what your thought process was. Because clearly like as a lawyer, it's a lucrative career and I could make a good income and starting over is a scary, risky thing. So just like walk us through what you were thinking.

Yeah, the interesting thing was obviously when when you were making, especially the big money when you were at the big law firms, I mean, everybody is attracted to that. And I think, you know, it's a natural thing. It's a natural human thing to say oh wow, you know, you make this much money, but I really saw how miserable you were and you really didn't like it. And maybe this sounds the wrong way but I had complete confidence that you would figure it out because you're obviously such a smart person. You were super driven. You had all the right requisite skills to be successful at whatever you were going to do. I know maybe it's a corny way to say it but I really thought that you were going to figure out the next thing you were going to do. Maybe it took a year, maybe it took three years but I felt it that you would become super successful at whatever you were going to do. So I didn't really think about it that way. And I and I just I I really saw how miserable you were. And I was like nothing is worth having somebody really hate their life, which impacted for you everything that you did, not just, like I said, not just personally, but professionally and the way you were with your friends and stuff. All of that was impacted because you did take everything that you do seriously but it wasn't worth it. Nothing was worth that. And you know, I had the confidence that you would crush it at some point.

Appreciate that. But like at any point like were you like well, you know, what are you going to do now? To be fair I think what you were suggesting was like why don't you get a job in something that's not law? I don't think we thought I was going to go so hard right, like take a sharp turn off of that path. I remember I was looking at like other nonprofits or doing something non-legal. So, I mean, was there a time when you were like, I mean, I mentioned this but like maybe you want to get a job at some point.

I think I still think that even now, as far as you've got, and I was like, what are you doing? But, I mean, it was just a journey. And I just, I know you talk on your podcast about just taking those steps. And I just felt like every part of the journey was another step. So it was just focusing on the next thing. Of course, I didn't think you were going to be a Tik Tok famous star. I don't even know what Instagram is still, but, you know, the at that time you were talking to different companies, you were trying different things, you know, you were constantly moving and you were moving forward. And so it never came to my mind that what is she doing? Because I just, like I said, you were trying all those different things and they were coming up with answers, mostly checking things off that you didn't want to do that you knew you didn't want to do it, but I never said you have to go back. I just, it just never crossed my mind. Like I said, you were just always constantly putting one foot in front of the other and going towards different things and learning more about yourself, learning more about the things you like and you didn't like. And so what you're explaining to to everybody on this podcast, you've lived that life. And that's why I think that people gravitate towards you is because you know what you're talking about, you went through it.

Yeah and when I started then like deciding at first I started looking for jobs and then I decided like maybe I could start a business, which again, if you know me is like..

Yeah, I mean, I remember having discussions with you about making money and it was just so negative, right? It's like nobody should ever make any money and and all business is bad.

Yeah, businesses are evil.

Yeah, yeah.

And this is why I laugh because like you were in business and you never said anything. You never were like uh, well, I'm in business but I had very extreme beliefs and money mindset issues with uh making money. And I think I was so attached to the identity of like I help people. And I'm, you know, I want to be a quote unquote good person and you can't be a good person and also want to make money. And so I was very scared of like what that would make me if I decided that I wanted to make money. And so I just say this in a sense to say that like we can change our thoughts. Our thoughts are not permanent. And clearly I realized, you know, I was very naive in some of my thinking and very extreme. So anyways, I say that because I think it is really funny that I eventually came around to like maybe I want to start a business. And I think that shows like how much I kind of changed in that short period of time.

Yeah and I think for me too, remember, I was going through a personal development journey. I had started that process myself, just reading books and you and I had started that gratefulness practice just right around that time where we were, you know, just moving here and kind of both in a little bit of a funk. You hated the law and didn't want to go back to it and with me, just a new environment. And we both started that gratefulness practice right around the same time where you started to go down this journey. And I honestly feel like that also helped us so much because we were really supporting each other. We were super grateful for each other and we were verbalizing that to each other. And I think that natural support helped. Honestly, I don't even know, if I was against you it's such a hard journey by yourself. I mean, with you know, with someone’s support, let alone by yourself, that I'm not saying you wouldn't have gotten there and I'm not trying to give myself credit but…

No, you should.

I just think it because I was able to push you through some of those times where hey just keep going and just encouraging you. And even if I wasn't encouraging you, not discouraging you, you know, not actively trying to go against that. And I think that also helped but it was because of the gratefulness. It was because we kept expressing how grateful we were

I think it was more even, so everyone on the podcast knows that I am the biggest supporter of a gratitude practice, because I do think that it's the biggest thing that changes your mindset. I think you bring up a really good point. And again, I've credited you with this as well, is I do think that was the same time that like you really started a personal development journey. Like I really thought a lot of this stuff was like woo woo ridiculous. You were listening to like Tony Robbins stuff. And I still kind of have an issue with Tony Robbins but I, you know, it started changing your mindset. And I mean, I have to credit you, like you really got me on the train of mindset stuff. And then when I, we started you're right, we started doing the gratitude practice and I started realizing like how quickly something so little and easy could completely start shifting the way I was like looking at my life and looking at the future. And so I think that that really did in that time really helped me start seeing that like oh, I can view things differently. I have more control over, you know, what I focus on. And I do think that that started down the path. I think you're absolutely right that like, you know, I talk to people about support and having like whether you have support or not. And I don't want people to take this as like you can't do it if other people don't support you, especially, I think I think there's a difference in a marriage because like you're worried about finances together. Like it directly impacts the other person as opposed to like a lot of people might say like my parents don't support me or my friends are going to judge me. And I think in that sense like you really have to work on your own mindset of just not giving into what other people's thoughts are. But I do think there's a special, there's a distinct relationship within a marriage because it really does require the other person to sort of be on board, whether it's you're going to quit the job, whether it's you're going to take your nights to work on a side hustle. Like there needs to be some kind of like an understanding or agreement because I do think it becomes really difficult if somebody else is actively also like feeding you doubts because you already have the doubts. Like it's already hard so I absolutely agree. But when I was switching from the photo booth to the podcast, we'll get to that. But I start the photo booth and you were obviously like a really big help in just helping me like think through making the product and working through doing that and building that up. And actually, I mean, that part of the story is not that exciting. Like we, I built that up and we started kind of running that over a couple of years kind of part-time. But the reason I say this is because like I started coming to you with the idea of the podcast like two years before I started the podcast. Right. Do you remember like the first time I told you that like I know what I want to do. And I kept couching it as like once the photo booth business is successful and on its own feet then I'm going to start this podcast. And then I talked about it constantly for years. And then you, which I am no way like blaming or anything, I think you were making the right rational decision, was like you kept saying like, you know, you don't have that much time. You're already at home with Kian, you're doing the photo booth, how would you ever manage a podcast as well? Like I don't think it's the right time for you to be like shifting your focus. And the reason I bring this up and I would love your thoughts because eventually in 2018 like you still were telling me that. And I was like you know what Pejman, I can't stop thinking about this. Like I have to start this podcast. And I say this because deep down, even those two years, I was like seeking your permission. You know? Like I wanted you to make the choice for me. I wanted you to say like okay, make the podcast like don't worry about it. And when you would say like, you know, I don't think you have that much time. You should focus on one thing. I would feel like a little bit deflated. And I was like he's right. And it would feed into my doubt until I got to the point where I was like, you know what? I get that he's not going to understand right now. But like I had such a deep desire to build this platform. And I didn't want to really voice it at the time. Like I didn't want to tell you like this is actually going to be my business but I knew it from then. I was like the photo booth is fine but I don't want to be doing it eventually. So like this is the thing I want to do. I just have to like do it even though I know Pejman won't fully understand or fully tell me like yeah, you should be doing it. Like he'll be like, you know, I think you should think about this. This is like a big commitment. And I was like that's okay, you can have doubts but like I I have to start this. So I'm just wondering what your thoughts were during that time when I kept bringing you this podcast idea.

Well, the first time you brought it up, I mean, you were you were super passionate about it. It was almost like an epiphany that that hit you. And I remember when you did it, your eyes turn bright, you know, wide open. And I remember you had a a specific feeling when you said it. And so I knew that at some point you would do it but yeah. And you kept coming back to it and and I, you're right. I, I, I'm just in general, I like to focus on one thing and do that. So I think in general, all my business advice is probably like don't do too many different things but when you kept coming back to it and you kept coming back to it, I knew that it was something that you were super passionate about and that you really wanted to try. And I think you got to the point too that you felt it so much that you had to do it and you had to get it started. Here we are 120 episodes later.

But did you think when I was starting it like what is she doing? Like this is crazy.

Yeah, I mean, I did. To be honest, I'm not much on social media or podcasting or any of that stuff.

I should let the folks know that you're probably the only dinosaur that still literally doesn't have a Facebook or an Instagram.

I created a Facebook account for two days. Never went on it.

But I'm just saying like you're not at all on any type of social media which is a huge bummer for me because like I get zero support on the social media from Pejman. But yeah I think because you didn't understand that world you were like why are you going on in, you still ask me, you're like who are you talking to? And I'm like it's called Instastories. Don't worry about it.

Yeah, that whole thing is it's still different for me. But again, I think we were at the point where you just really want to do what you had been talking about it for two years. And every time you talked about it, you know, you would light up and you really wanted to try it. And obviously you didn't even know where you were going to go with it. It was just to get the word out there and and to help people, that was your original goal and still is. I mean, there was some skepticism from my side but mostly from just not understanding what you were doing but again, you had so much passion for it and you really wanted to do it. That there was nothing I was going to ever say anyway.

Which again, I just like want to raise the point, I mean, it's understandable. Like I understood why you had skepticism because it had nothing to do with the business that I was running like I was I was trying to build up a photobooth business. It wasn't as though I was starting a podcast about entrepreneurship or I was starting a podcast that had something like about the event space or anything like that. It was really like I want to talk about this issue. You know, obviously I had my own doubts. That's why I put it off for two years. Because every time you would say that I was like he's right, like I don't have that much time. I should only focus on one thing. And when I couldn't stop thinking about it after a while, and I remember, you know, I would check the podcasts on like iTunes, the browsing page. And every time I would see someone that was similar to like even remotely similar to the concept that I wanted to do, my heart would drop and I would feel so panicked. And I was like I need to do this. Like it doesn't matter, I'm going to regret this. And the reason I say this is because I got to a place where I kept trying like I kept bringing it up and being like at some point, I'm going to wear him down and he's going to tell me like do it, just do the fricking podcast, stop talking about it. And you didn’t. And that was actually like such a wonderful lesson for me because I really had to face like okay, he's going to say don't and you still have to say like listen, I get that you don't get it but I have to do this. And so like I'm just asking you to like don't say anything about it. Like I'm going to do it, I'll manage it. I'll manage it all my time. Again, you weren't like actively against me. It's not like you were like this is a dumb idea. Like why would you ever do this? And so I wasn't fighting you but it was the first time that I really had to realize like okay everyone else doesn't have to see my vision. And even for me, to be honest, I couldn't voice the vision because I was too scared to say like oh, I'm going to make a business and I'm going to make money. And I'm going to try to help people. And I'm going to try to grow my influence. And like that sounded so ridiculous. And so I was hiding that and I kept saying like oh I just want to talk about this issue. And I just want to interview people. And I know from your perspective, it was like why? You're like you just spent all this time just interviewing people for what reason? And I was like I don't know. I just, this is what I want to do. So I just say that and I think for anybody listening who may have a spouse or parent or someone who doesn't understand, what I kept telling myself as like it's okay if he doesn't understand it, I understand what I want to do. Like it's okay if he doesn't see the vision, I don't need to convince him. I need to spend that time figuring out what it is that I actually want to do.

Yeah, no I I I agree with you a hundred percent. Like there's no way I would have ever come around just because I didn't know. And it was really not fair to ask me to approve something that I really don't know anything about. Like those discussions were always funny to me because I didn't know what you were wanting to do. I didn't understand why you wanted to do it but somehow you wanted me to say hey, go for it. And where, whereas I just, there was no way I would ever be able to do that. So I think that probably a lot of people do that where they just want someone to just say hey, go do it.

But you just want permission.

Permission to go do it. But it's just, it's unrealistic to expect somebody to want to go do that if they have no clue what you're doing. They don't have the same passion as you do. They don't understand the group that you're working with. You've been a lawyer. I haven't been. So how would I have ever known…

No, absolutely.

We're going to do well on the podcast. And I think, again, it's, it's one thing to, I think, ask permission. It's another thing to just say, hey, this is what I'm going to do, you know, accept it. And you know, and you did that. You came to me and I mean, we've obviously talked about the podcast many times, but you were like I'm going to go do this. And then at that point it's like yes, go for it, you know, if that's what you want to do. But I think that was the critical point is when you decided that you wanted to do it and you had a discussion with me about what you were trying to do, how you were going to do it. And let’s go.

Yeah, exactly. I think that is a key distinction is like where are you trying to seek permission versus like where is this like my decision and I'm going to make it. And I'm asking you like as my spouse to please support me like even if you don't understand, even if you don't see it, that's fine. But like this is what I need from you. I think that's a different way of going about it. Whereas a lot of times we are really seeking their permission and a lot of times you're right, somebody is coming with their own thoughts and their own fears and their own doubts. Like we all are risk averse to some extent, you know, we're human beings, you know, we want to avoid the things we don't know. And so it's really difficult for people to just have your vision when they have their own sets of fears. Obviously like as a spouse or even family members, most of the time it's coming from a well-meaning place. Like you want to protect the person, you know, like I know for you, like you wanted me to be successful. And you thought like spend all of your time on this business that you're running this photo booth and put it in that instead of doing this, like not from a place of like I want to kill your dreams but like okay, this makes more sense for you. So and I think I was taken as like why isn't he picking up my hints? I want to do this thing. Why doesn't he just say do it? And I realized like that day's not coming. So you better just like say what you want and do it.

Yeah and once you decided and you put the pedal to the metal like at that point, it was off to the races. And and honestly at once I saw that you were there, I supported you through that process because I I realized that hey, she really wants to do this. But you were asking me for advice and if you look at the way I run the business, uh, our business, I do one thing at a time. So I gave you the same advice I would give myself.


But it's a completely different industry, a completely different person. You have different skills, you have all these different things. So I would take all advice with a grain of salt with where people are coming from. You know, most of us have the answers to all of these questions within ourselves. And it's just figuring out how to get it out. And I think a lot of times we go seek it from spouses or friends or parents and it's all inside of you. You have to just figure out how to get it out.

Well that was beautifully said. And I think it's just because, I mean, obviously we talk about thoughts all the time on this podcast. I think it's just such a good reminder of what you were just saying is that like everybody has their own thoughts about something based on their own, you know, experiences, beliefs. And what's funny is the we think like oh this person is, you know, just not being supportive or doesn't care. It's like no, you're projecting your own insecurities or whatever frustrations, as opposed to like, you were just saying like you approach things in a certain way. So that's the lens you're going to see the world and like anything that's presented to you, you're going to look at it a certain way. And it has nothing to do with like not wanting to support me. It's just that, you know, that's the way you were looking at it which like makes sense. And I do think actually, like it's not that it's caused any problems or anything, but even afterwards, like we've had very differing views on what I should do with the photo booth business. Like you love that business and you really wanted me to grow it. And even as I, you know, I mean, 2020 came and COVID came, and that kind of shut it down. But before 2020, I was constantly trying to kind of make it as passive as possible so that I could spend all of my time on the podcast. And I think for you, that's always been like you know, you're growing this, you can grow this as a good business. Why are you kind of putting this on the back burner? So we've had our like difference of opinions on that as well.

Yeah, I think the photo booth business, you did one thing that I don't know if it was strategically or whatever we want to call that but you kind of pulled me into that from the start of it, right? From just the hardware discussion. It was some overlap with our business. So I don't know, maybe part of me was also more vested in that business because I understood it. We worked on that a lot together and it was a business that made sense to me. Whereas again, still the podcast thing still doesn't make any sense to me. So that's probably why I particularly supported that more. But one thing I want to say is I know a lot of times you talk about, you know, you don't know how great it could be. Uh and I'm going to tell you from a spouse's perspective, you know, I think about, you know, if you were still a lawyer now and how much you hated that part of your life and having to spend more than half of your life doing something you dislike which is going to impact everything you do. I don't care who you are, it's going to have that impact. And then to see where you are now, where, you know, you're, you've got this podcast, you're coaching and it's improved me even because of your mindset work and how we approach our kids, how we approach our family, our friends, like it's improved my life so much more. And I just think about, you know, people who do have a spouse, who's just, you know, not happy with where they're at or not fulfilling themselves or not getting to their potential. How much are you leaving off the table and how great could your life be? And people don't know it and they're just too scared to go for it. But you did. And you really enhanced my life. You enhanced the life of our kids. You enhance the life of everybody around you, all of our family, all of our friends, they come to you now for for this kind of advice. And it's crazy to think about, you wouldn't have ever been there if you wouldn't have made those tough choices that you just didn't want to do this, you weren't going to let it define who you are going to be. And now you're here. And like everybody got to benefit from that. And think about you right now, whoever's listening to this, you can do that for your spouse. You could do that for anybody around you by just making a conscious decision that you're not going to deal with the unhappiness and you're going to do something about it. And you literally could change lives, you know, completely from where they were before. So I want to put that out there.

Now you're going to make me cry yet on the podcast for the first time. That was very, very sweet. I really obviously appreciate that. You said that to me, actually, when I say this, when I was looking for a job as a lawyer and I remember like I was at the interview stage with that organization and they kept bringing up the fact that I would have to work a lot of nights and weekends. And at the time, you know, Kian was like six months old and I was really dreading it. And I was telling you and when you started saying like maybe you can do something else. And I was like I can't do anything. And we were just talking about it. And I remember like asking you, I don't remember the question, but I was basically saying like you'd be okay with me not being a lawyer. And you said like Goli, everything you do affects my life. Like you're gonna come home from work and you're going to come home late and Kian is going to be asleep and you're going to be miserable and you're gonna be upset that you didn't see him. And then like you're going to be unhappy the whole time. And then you're gonna get up the next day and you're gonna be miserable. And like that's going to make me miserable. It's going to make Kian miserable. Like why would we want to live like that? And it was a moment that I remember because I was like he's right. How am I showing up at my son's life? How am I showing up in my husband's life? How am I going to be if I'm constantly stressed and anxiety-ridden and unhappy? And I think that was really one of the things that I realized like I didn't want to do. And I, a thousand percent agree that in my own life I look at like I could have never imagined how good it could have been. Like I could have never, no matter how much I envisioned what this journey would have been. There's no way I would have known the possibilities. And I think that, I think about that when I talk to people that are so focused on what they're going to leave behind, are so focused on what is going to get lost like that sunk cost and not focused on like what they're going to gain. And I think you said it beautifully because it's, and I try to say this, it's not even in the like money that you make or anything like that. You know, that's easy stuff to put on Instagram or that's easy for people to grasp. So people use it and say like I made this much this year or whatever but like that pales in comparison to like showing up happy and like the full version of yourself and giving yourself the freedom to try new things and experiment and getting over the judgment of others. And I think, you know what you say a lot, like obviously I was very beholden to what people thought of me. I think that's what you, when you were talking about, like the fact that I'm on Tik Tok now is just mind blowing because I was debilitated by what other people thought about me. And I think doing this work and really pushing yourself, it's not just to like get the career but it's to change who you are so that you're not defined by other people. And so you tell me all the time and I appreciate it and it's such a motivating factor but to see, you know, that me doing this stuff and coming in talking to you like helps you and it's helped our relationship and it's helped, you know, the way we parent. And so it's really just like the best thing you could ever do for yourself.

Way to go, Goli. You did it.

I saved the day. No, obviously, as you guys can all tell it's all Pejman. I really really appreciate the support. I mean, I I there's no way I could have done this without you. Yeah, thank you so much for being here today. Any parting words for spouses who want to, because the thing is is this all sounds great and we're condensing what's happened over like seven years and there's a lot of low times.

It's hard. That's why I'm so proud of you cause I saw that journey that you went through the mental struggle, the ups and downs of, you know, can I do this? Can I not do this? I mean really through the whole process, you've changed 20 times just in the last 10 years of who you are. It's hard, you know, it's really, really hard. And so when I see people that that are going through that similar change, I really have an immense respect because changing your profession, changing who you are is not easy work. And again, I'm not trying to plug this, but obviously I have coaches and I believe in coaching. You're not going to do it on your own. I mean, miraculously, you may make it, you know, Goli obviously made it through, you know, part of that ups and downs but I'm sure she would have loved to have talked to herself 10 years ago because it would have short-circuited five of those years. And she would have been at this place a long time ago. So it's a difficult thing to get through. And I think having a coach and now I have coaches everywhere. I'm a 40 year old who has a basketball coach now because I see the value in it. You you improve yourself and you get better. And these things making changes like that are not easy to do. I always tell you I'm so proud of of what you did and what you have done because it is so difficult to make those types of changes. And it's a mental struggle because there are days that you wanted to quit yourself of quitting quitting quitter because it's a challenge. You don't know what tomorrow holds. There isn't a blueprint for what you're supposed to do.

Well, I love you so much. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us. I know you didn't really want to do this podcast. I appreciate you because I think it is very helpful to hear it from that perspective. There's nowhere for people to come follow you so...

You can follow me. Yeah, you can’t follow me.

You can’t follow him anywhere so you can just like send me an email if you want to chat with him. Thanks Pejman.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening. I can't tell you how much it means to me. If you liked the podcast, please rate and review us on iTunes, it'll help other people find the show. If you want to connect or reach out, follow along on Instagram and Facebook at Lessons From a Quitter and on Twitter at QuitterPodcast, I would love to hear from you guys and I'll see you on the next episode.